Ep 38 - July 16, 2025 - GENIUS Act drama
Welcome to another episode of the weekly crypto check-in recorded on 07/16/2025. I'm your host, Robert Sworthout, and I'm joined by my cohost, Andres Sanate. How's it going, Andres?
Andres Sandate:Good, Robert. Dog days of summer I find myself in. It's humid and hot out here in Atlanta, but, no. I'm doing well. How are you?
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I'm I'm doing well. We were talking before we started here about, normally, I'm outside in the mornings trying to take advantage of the cooler weather. Today, I did not go outside. And oddly enough, it was one of the cooler mornings, so I would have Right.
Robert Swarthout:Really enjoyed that. But, you're right. It's it's hot out. We need some rain is what we need. It's been rather dry here in Atlanta.
Robert Swarthout:So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Well, it's been an interesting couple of weeks. I know we we haven't recorded, this cadence of of kind of doing it twice a month or every other week has, you know, allowed for headlines to to percolate. And there's definitely been some developments on the legislative front and some interesting activity from an IPO perspective. So a lot of good things to cover today.
Robert Swarthout:Absolutely. So the first one is about an IPO, Grayscale. And those that have been listening for a while may recognize Grayscale's name. They before we had ETFs for Bitcoin and Ethereum, they were the company that had, publicly traded private trust. And they converted that trust into the Bitcoin ETF.
Robert Swarthout:It is the ticker of that is GBTC, and, they're they're known for high fees. So they're they're looking on going public. I I've kind of view this more as a exit strategy for the founders than anything else because I'm not quite sure how durable this business is with their high fees. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Especially in a world where the the you know, some of the headlines that we didn't put in here talk about the success of BlackRock's ETF, Isaac, and how, you know, their fee model and the likes of these giant asset managers has been to reduce fees and make it so that, you know, everyday Americans and investors, retail investors all the way up to institutions can buy just about any asset class now through an index ETF for a few basis points a year. So, yeah, they're they're a little bit of an outlier and have been, you know, at the forefront of kind of converting these trusts into similar products, but their fees still are higher. They wouldn't be the first asset manager that would be publicly traded if that's, you know, how they end up sort of describing themselves as an asset manager. But a lot of these asset managers, you know, that just our index providers have much, much more scale and and a much broader distribution and, you know, live on the shelf, if you will, at a bank or an insurance company or or a financial advisory platform, whereas Grayscale is not not on that scale.
Andres Sandate:So right. Yeah, like you said, it could be an exit for, you know, the insiders or for the the the owners to try to get liquidity while, you know, crypto seems to have, you know, been recently riding a wave of enthusiasm.
Robert Swarthout:Absolutely. It's you know, I I as a founder myself in the past and, I guess, currently too, you know, more power to Mike Norvitz, the founder of Grayscale. I personally don't like a lot of what he has to say, but I can respect the hustle that he's gone through. So it's, you know, I I guess, mixed bag in this one for me, I guess, from a personal perspective. But, anyways, talking about asset managers, they don't get any bigger than Vanguard.
Andres Sandate:Right.
Robert Swarthout:And so Vanguard this is just ironic. So Vanguard does not allow, account holders to invest in Bitcoin ETFs, Ethereum ETFs, anything crypto related
Andres Sandate:Right.
Robert Swarthout:Except with a big asterisk here, except for now that strategy, what used to be called microscript strategy, now that they're in the S and P 500, the Vanguard ETF for that, has to buy it effectively. Right. And, now they're
Andres Sandate:They have lots of yeah. And they have lots of index funds that track, you know, Right. Own
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. So that now, Grace, Vanguard is the largest single holder of MicroStrategy, which is just highly ironic.
Andres Sandate:Like Right. By default, they across all these different funds that they that they own and run, They're now a big institutional investor in strategy. By default, their analysts and research teams have to cover the company. But so goes the index. So goes, you know, the funds that they own.
Andres Sandate:So that means a lot of Americans by default own MicroStrategy because they own Vanguard funds.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. This is the bizarro world we live in these days. This is, like, not something that I initially would have thought was coming, but it makes total sense now that we talk about it. But it's a crazy world. And we one of the things we were talking about before we started recording was what are these what do they have in common?
Robert Swarthout:Well, they really only have one thing in common. Vanguard and MicroStrategy both claim to be long term investors. I think the similarities stop there, but the but I guess maybe they do have some common ground if they ever need to talk to each other. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Well, one thing about these bigger institutional investors is when it comes to corporate governance and proxies and their annual meetings is because of the size of their ownership stake in these companies that they see something that they want to change or they want to have influence on. They're certainly, generally as a management team that's receptive to hearing hints, they don't always follow them clearly. But given the magnitude of ownership that Vanguard has, and there's obviously their sway, certainly, you know, would think there would be at least a lot more coverage of what strategy is doing within within Vanguard going forward. So, yeah, the the ironies, you know, certainly are Mhmm.
Andres Sandate:Are out there for sure to to to look at here.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. The so I don't know if this is in on, I guess, the spirit of irony. Our third topic is the genius act. There's voting that's been procedural voting that has failed and has passed. I I actually have come to believe I had this theory that representatives that are elected to congress feel like they have to create drama to, validate that they have their position that they're in.
Robert Swarthout:Because it everything seems to have drama. I don't care if it's crypto related or not. And maybe this is the divisive world we live in, but so the procedural vote, that was happening for the Genius Act. The Genius Act is the stablecoin bill that has already passed the senate. Now it's in you know, trying to work its way through the house.
Robert Swarthout:As of, I believe, Monday had failed. That vote failed. There was some Freedom Caucus Republicans that voted against it, which all of sudden didn't allow it to have enough votes to kinda move forward. That has since been cleaned up in literally twenty minutes before we started recording today on Wednesday here. It did pass.
Robert Swarthout:So I think the Freedom Caucus was worried that there was not some rules or clarity around, the anti CBD part that they wanna have in the bill. So basically saying The US can't have a CBDC. And I I'm assuming they got cleaned up or they got persuaded in some way, but here we are. So the procedural vote, now I think it comes up for floor discussion, and then it could proceed on to a more of a final vote potentially. And then assuming it passes, then it's on to president Trump's desk.
Robert Swarthout:So
Andres Sandate:Well, and, you know, if there was ever a time to turn in tune in, pardon, to C SPAN, it would be to hear, you know, older Americans, you know, with white hair and suits on trying to talk about crypto. Now I'm I'm I'm digressing, but I you know, it'd be interesting to see if it did come to a, you know, to hearings or committee to to hear kind of how far politicians have come on this issue over the last, you know, couple of years. But it also comes at a time when David Sachs, the crypto AI czar for president Trump and the crypto task force, are they also preparing to issue their first report, here? Is it next week? I think it's before the July.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. It's sometime soon. And the White House, I believe, is the one that started this, terminology, but they're calling this crypto week in DC. I don't know if the industry helped start that or the White House did, but, Trump even tweeted about crypto yesterday or Monday. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:So, you know, it's it's
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I'm pretty sure that the the task force report is coming out. And so it could be this week, and then maybe that is in con you know, consistent with with this being crypto week in DC. But it it that will obviously grab some headlines because that was a lot of folks in the industry and obviously on Capitol Hill that were collectively coming together to try to put together, if you will, a framework for this industry from the standpoint of what do we need to to get it, you know, moving forward and further embedded in, you know, in the economy within the regulatory bodies, etcetera. So, yeah, there there are folks working in the summer, contrary to Yeah.
Andres Sandate:To popular belief.
Robert Swarthout:It's but, you know, it's even two months ago, I was not terribly optimistic that we would be moving as long assuming as fast along as we are with these bills. Stablecoin is the easier of the two. The market structure bill, which will be the second one that comes through the senate, and the committees are starting to work on that. Maybe by September, there's markup and that's voted on by the of September. But, we, we're getting closer, and it actually starting to feel a little more real than it's than it's ever felt.
Andres Sandate:Well, it's sort of like the old euphemism. People overestimate what you can get done in the short term, and they underestimate what you get done in the long run. And I think when President Trump was obviously elected into office and, you know, they they sort of sweep into into power controlling both houses of Congress narrowly, but obviously the executive branch as well. And everybody was super optimistic coming from the the crypto and digital asset and blockchain equation. And industry was like, we're going to see all this stuff in the first ninety days.
Andres Sandate:And there was a flurry of things. But ultimately, it felt like in, you know, in kind of the, you know, the spring, it was like, oh, right. And we all like had to wake up to the reality. You know, there's actually bigger things going on in the world. Right.
Andres Sandate:We saw what was going on in The Middle East and just flare ups between continued things with with Russia and the Ukraine. And it's just like a lot of stuff I felt like kind of took and needed to take. It did take a backseat. And then it's like here, we find ourselves, like, you know, kind of plotting along in June, July, and there's actually stuff that's happening. The capital markets have opened back up a little bit.
Andres Sandate:Right. We saw and talked about that on our last episode. We're now seeing, you know, grayscale and other companies talking about an IPO. So there is more happening. And obviously there's more headlines to go.
Andres Sandate:But yeah, I mean, I think in the long run, we might underestimate, you know, at the end of the day, like how much gets done in 2025 when we get to December.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And and a bit of also from the perspective of, like, it seems to be a priority. Like, it like, because if you look at it from the perspective of these 12 Republicans that voted against it on Monday, Trump brought them into the Oval Office on Tuesday, had a discussion with them. There was absolutely no chance that if the a year ago, the Democrats are trying to do this, that president Biden woulda had them in the office talking about crypto. This is not gonna happen.
Andres Sandate:No. Yeah. It would not have been a priority.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. So it's just, you know, may go by as something that's, not important and missed, but I think that's pretty important. The capital markets are gonna quickly change in the order of a couple years here likely, and it'll be interesting to kind of watch it unfold.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. No doubt about it. And there's also just a super active crypto lobby now. Right? And a lot of conversations.
Andres Sandate:And and obviously, there's a huge effort and undertaking going on behind the scenes with with elected officials, you know, at all levels. And that lobby is meaningful and powerful. And clearly, there's a lot more interest now at stake, right, between the asset management industry, the banks. Right. There's a lot more players that are probably at the table in those conversations to make sure that their voice is heard, which we'll cover here in a bit.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And and I think maybe just from the perspective of the crypto industry spent so much money on the last election. We got the people in there. We just need to follow through and get them to follow through. So it's like you don't want that that those funds to go to waste.
Robert Swarthout:So, you know, with the whole lobbying effort that I'm sure is happening behind the scenes. So, anyways, we can move on here. Still staying in politics. So there's, it's not yet signed, but it's an executive order, that's being circulated around that Trump is likely to sign that would, open up four zero one k's, to private markets. Be a big deal.
Andres Sandate:It would be. I mean, this was one that, like, you added in, and and I had read about this early in the week, and the notion would be that, in your four zero one k today, you know, most companies, you're able to select from a handful of, you know, traditional asset management companies. We talked about Vanguard, BlackRock, you know, Wellington, ING, American Funds, right? Household names, Dodge and Cox. And these large traditional asset managers have have historically kind of dominated fidelity, have dominated the four zero one ks market, and individuals with a four zero one ks have really had to pick from those, you know, handful of managers and to really be in a four zero one ks plan.
Andres Sandate:There's a significant amount of compliance and regulatory reporting and large asset managers are best positioned historically have been best positioned to do that. Well, one thing you couldn't really do in a four zero one k is you couldn't invest in the private economy. You couldn't invest in private equity. You couldn't invest in crypto. You couldn't invest in real estate, traditional private equity real estate.
Andres Sandate:And so obviously, there are, you know, very, very large and now publicly traded asset managers out there, you know, Blackstone, KKR, Ares, Apollo, just to name a few that are obviously lining up probably and spending a lot of time in D. C. To say this is now the time in which we ought to be able participate and Americans ought to be able to participate. The irony is when you look at the pension plans across America, a lot of the defined benefit pension plans for teachers and firefighters and, you know, lots of different unions have been investing in the private markets for decades. They've had access to some of these very big asset managers and their strategies for years.
Andres Sandate:And, you know, this isn't the show to talk about performance and get into that. But the point is Americans that have worked at firms that offer 401Ks hadn't. And so this would be a very, very massive change to the four zero one ks market and would obviously open the floodgates. And you would think that crypto would want to participate as well. So it'll be really interesting to see.
Andres Sandate:You hate to think the idea of a four zero one K getting loaded up in a bunch of crypto, you know, just like it would be scary if they loaded it up in a bunch of private equity. Right. But, you know, the the reality is is there's going be some guardrails in place? What you hope is that, you know, that people have choice and that, you know, you're not forced to only buy one, you know, crypto fund or from one crypto asset manager.
Robert Swarthout:Black Friday is going to offer three different ETFs and those are your choices.
Andres Sandate:You know where I was going with this, right? So, yeah. We'll see. But yeah, it's going to be something to watch to see if President Trump signs this order and then what that actually means is do companies go forward and actually start looking for private managers, you know, to be a part of their four zero one k's. You know, there's there's lots of different layers to this, but but certainly something to watch.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. You know, I think you alluded to it. You know, assuming this happens, I imagine the guardrails are that they're gonna cap the percentage of your four zero one k that can be in private, to keep people from just kinda going crazy with it.
Andres Sandate:So Right. Right.
Robert Swarthout:Anyways, we will probably have more news on that sometime soon. So Mhmm. So our next one is banks are now allowed to custody crypto. I did not think this was a 2025 thing. I'll be honest, even with the positive environment that we have around crypto.
Robert Swarthout:But it's a, as of yesterday, the, the Fed, the FDIC, and the OCC came together, put out a document basically allowing so giving banks the all clear and basically gave them the rules of the road. Part of those rules that I think are the most important are banks will be dealing with the the private keys of a wall blockchain wallet for whatever networks, their client has assets. And if the bank, if those private keys get compromised, the banks are liable. So it'd be interesting to see how this gets added into I would assume it's, like, the brokerage side of the house, not necessarily the bank side of the house, and, like, how they deal with custody, how they charge for it because that's there's it's not zero cost right now. We will probably get there over the long term.
Robert Swarthout:But right now, it's a it's it does have an expense. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. And so the, you know, the I guess the questions I would have would be, you know, what size of banks are gonna make, you know, a toehold here in terms of offering custody services of crypto assets? You know, are you going to have to have traditional assets there before they'll accept your crypto assets? You know, is there a certain minimum? You know, because crypto comes with a lot of implications, right, around keys and security.
Andres Sandate:There's a lot more you just read about a lot more attempted hacks or hacks outright of crypto than you do people's stocks, right? People's real estate. Right. So it's just it's going to open up a lot more questions to to follow. But obviously, again, something you said earlier in the recording, like just a a big change from where we would have been six and twelve months ago.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. You know, just the difference in nature of the technologies. Right?
Andres Sandate:Like, if
Robert Swarthout:somebody doesn't steal socks because, a, it's no longer paper certificates. It's electronic records. And if somebody stole it, they're gonna be able to figure out who did it and unwind that. The nature of blockchain is you don't unwind these things. Mhmm.
Robert Swarthout:So that if something is stolen, it's gone. You potentially try to trap it somewhere else, but it's not necessarily there's no, like, return to sender option. So I don't know. It's again, it was a surprise, good surprise. And we we seem to be getting kind of these random things, this being one of them, happening kind of once a month, once or a couple times a quarter, in a positive direction for crypto.
Robert Swarthout:And, you know, again, we're gonna look back maybe a year from now, and be like, wow. Look at look where we came from in such a short period of time. So Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.
Robert Swarthout:So our next one is on Visa. So Visa is launching their own crypto network. I'm not surprised about this. Visa has been doing a lot of testing, for years. They didn't make huge big, fanfare about it, but they would talk about different pilots that they're running and different things.
Robert Swarthout:In this case, you know, Visa, the network that they run now processes, I've heard, like, 25,000 transactions a second type situation, a lot. So it's it's a tremendous amount of data, and, admittedly, they have to get right or they got a really big problem. And, you know, they're trying to leverage stablecoins in this. I was kinda reading an executive summary that I had AI rate for me of this massive PDF, and it was cool to kinda see, like, how they're approaching it. They're gonna be using their own network.
Robert Swarthout:So it's not a true pub public blockchain. It is a blockchain, but but a private one. And, you know, they'll be doing settlement, it sounds like, with stablecoins and fiat. I believe this is, like, not even step one. This is half a step into using crypto, in my opinion, and they're just gonna kind of, you know, take take their time and be cautious about it.
Andres Sandate:You know, just yesterday, I was trying to do a payment out of my financial institution to a vendor. And believe it or not, the vendor, you know, small business in Florida, you know, that banks with Chase, and I won't name my bank, but they they have a big, you know, traditional money center bank. I'm I'm using more of a super regional bank, let's call them. And I can't I, you know, they give me their instructions to receive payment. So as the payee, they give me their routing number, their ACH, blah, blah, I go into my bank and I just want to send them, you know, pay an invoice, you know, a few thousand dollar invoice.
Andres Sandate:And because of the size of their company, I guess my institution determined that they're through the merchant services network that my bank has, that I'm not able to pay them electronically. I can only I can only pay them with a traditional check. Right.
Robert Swarthout:Makes no sense. That's what they're
Andres Sandate:like. And so I send the check July by July 7. I requested it to be processed to pay an invoice. And I, you know, here we are July 15 yesterday, and I called my bank and I said, you know, I don't believe this this payee has received the funds. They're telling me they haven't received the check.
Andres Sandate:Can you look into it? And two hours later, we had to stop the check. Can't find it. Nobody knows what happened. Everybody's pointing a finger, you know, the bank saying The US post.
Andres Sandate:And I just said, okay, stop the check. I had to tell the guys and they're very understanding and they're like, we're gonna see on our end if we can, you know, go another route. But it just it made me really think like, one, there's probably some fintechs out there that offer a better, you know, ACH, you know, payment solution than a traditional bank. But it just really made me realize, like with all the fees and all the layers and all the legacy systems, like these financial institutions have to innovate and they have to really, you know, be willing to make the financial commitments in the technology and the infrastructure. Otherwise, you know, customers, you know, in my small, you know, business, medium sized business, like in my deposit, we're going somewhere else.
Andres Sandate:Right. It's just it's just unbelievable that you can't literally pay a vendor today, like, as a business customer without, in this case, like, you know, anything other than a physical check. I mean, come on.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. It it it makes you scratch your head.
Andres Sandate:Oh my god. It's hard hard to hard to imagine.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I was helping my dad recently. He sold his house. He moved, in buying elsewhere and wiring the funds out. Like, he he banks with Chase.
Robert Swarthout:I will never bank with Chase after the experience I've had with him, because it they they treated him like he was a criminal. Like and then, like, he doesn't have a bank in his town, we have to drive forty five minutes to go to a Chase bank. They make it easy there, but then the back office is is the boogeyman. And, like, they just never wanted to believe anything. It was it was a nightmare.
Robert Swarthout:That took, like, a week and a half to figure out.
Andres Sandate:Well and and then we're on the whole other spectrum, like, with with a wealth management firm, we're trying to close a multimillion dollar transaction and there's a $42,000,000 wire that was sent from The UK. They were they were trying to send it to a bank in Nashville, Tennessee, a fairly large bank, Pinnacle Bank. Yeah. And Pinnacle uses a correspondent bank called Wells Fargo. I think we've all heard of Wells Fargo.
Andres Sandate:If you're an international types of wires like this, Wells Fargo has more of an infrastructure and they will accept the funds. They've got to go through compliance processes on their end and then the money goes to Pinnacle. Right. And yet it's been thirty days and this wire is caught up. And, you know, then you find out today, like somebody wants like 1% to do all this AML and compliance.
Andres Sandate:And I'm like, that's $90,000
Robert Swarthout:Right.
Andres Sandate:Like to do your job. And mean, it's just and so I just think we'll look back on this time and we'll we'll we'll just we'll realize, you know, there's going to be those that are left behind because customers ultimately will move on and vote, you know, with their feet as a boss used to tell me. So but it's it's still out there.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And this is, I think, a great segue to our next topic because big banks so you got your JPMorgan, you got your Citi, you got your BofA, and you got your Wells Fargo. Those are the four big correspondent
Andres Sandate:banks
Robert Swarthout:in The US. They see the writing on the wall that this technology is about to change things. All of sudden, they're very interested in, issuing stablecoins. Because then stablecoins literally in your scenario, the person sending the funds from, I believe you said The UK Yeah. Literally could have gone on to a crypto exchange over there, bought stablecoins, sent it across the network, and literally everyone would be happy, and it would be in their account within twenty four hours.
Robert Swarthout:And and the slow part there is the settlement from, say, Coinbase into the Pinnacle Bank part. Yeah. So I it just it's coming quick. But the my favorite quote, about this whole big banks issuing stablecoins part is Jamie Dimon, he has been anti Bitcoin, anti crypto for the longest time. Yes.
Robert Swarthout:He he's used every way to describe how much he hates it. But he says, JPMorgan will be entering the cryptos the stablecoin space to understand it and to be good at it. Okay. First of all, they've been doing so much work behind the scenes. They're ready to go.
Robert Swarthout:We've we've been to a conference, and we've heard them talk. Yeah. But, yeah, as Citi and BofA make similar moves, it would be interesting to kinda see how they gonna go about this because you end up with start unless they all start to use the same stablecoin, which is not gonna happen because they don't trust each other, you're gonna end up with this fragmented liquidity with all across all these different stablecoins. In a world where that happens, you start to need a crypto network to kind of balance it all out and kinda do it So that that is one of the visions of the XRP Ledger and what Ripple's been trying to do. So that that part I find interesting.
Robert Swarthout:But the BofA, during their earnings call this morning, Brian Moynihan was asked about Bitcoins, and he said, yes. We're ready to do it. We're gonna be using outside vendors to help us, outside crypto stablecoin vendors, to do it. And Ripple is, like, the biggest one that we know of that's likely been helping. So I think this is gonna change very quickly for all these guys.
Robert Swarthout:How it trickles down to the consumer and how long that takes will be interesting, but to see how long that actually, how how much time that takes to elapse. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. You'd you'd think it would start with with larger you know, even though the dollar amounts are larger, like I feel like it's going to start with larger, chunkier, you know, more controlled movements of of funds effectively before it makes its way to retail where, you know, there's there's just a lot more headline risk. And I think the the testing, I would think it's obviously, like you said, it's it's been years in the making. So it's just a matter of it could be a matter of months, but it can't be more than a few years before I just feel like settlement and and and sending payments, sending funds is gonna look dramatically different for consumers as well.
Robert Swarthout:Absolutely. I just quickly looked up. So Tether is a $160,000,000,000 market cap, and USDC is 63. So call it a 122,000,000,000. That's chump change.
Robert Swarthout:Like it. When we start talking about the scale that these other guys work at. So the market caps of either these stablecoins or or other ones pop up on the scene are quickly gonna become big, big numbers. And I think obviously crypto may grow along with that just generally, but it's be interesting to watch. So our last topic is a more sort of highlight that more is going on in crypto than just stablecoins and, goals in congress.
Robert Swarthout:So Ripple is, working with a, startup out of Dubai, and they're working to and I realized I spelled Dubai wrong there in our little slides, but they are working to get all property leads in Dubai on a blockchain, the XRP Ledger in this case. And this is cool. I mean, this is gonna allow things to enable fractional ownership, transparency. You potentially could use this in an easier way to do collateral for, you know, a loan that you may wanna take out. And I just, the world that we talked about, these what ifs years ago, a lot of these what ifs are starting to come true, which is pretty cool.
Robert Swarthout:So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. The real world use cases. I remember we had that conversation multiple times with, you know, prospective investors around just some of the things that, you know, Teton was doing and and the application. And I felt like we were at times, you know, looking deeper, deeper into whether it was, you know, foreign markets or, you know, there were there were use cases that were commercial, but the commercial everyday relevance for the person listening, they just maybe didn't see themselves there in terms of, oh, it's going to be used in international shipping and receiving and transport of goods and materials. Now we're seeing it, you know, in things like real estate and other real world assets that people can identify with every single day.
Andres Sandate:So, you know, but we have seen it largely initially developing in Asia and in Europe first. But it is good to see, you know, given the headlines we've talked about here on this show over the last year or so, especially in the last six months, momentum is picking up here. And, you know, I think I think the one thing that, you know, people can often say about The US is it's a pretty resilient economy and quite, you know, quite clearly is one of the, you know, most innovative economies, sometimes just not the fastest.
Robert Swarthout:Agreed. Agreed. Well, I think that, will do a wrap for it. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the weekly crypto check-in. To stay updated on future episodes, you can find us in any podcast player by searching TITAN crypto capital or the weekly crypto check-in.
Robert Swarthout:Take care.
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