Weekly Crypto Check-In

Robert Swarthout: 00:10

Welcome to another episode of the weekly crypto check-in recorded on May 22, 2024. I'm your host, Robert Swartell, and I'm joined by my cohost, Andres Sundate. How's it going, Andres?

Andres Sandate: 00:19

Good, Robert. It's good to be back after a, brief hiatus last week.

Robert Swarthout: 00:24

Yeah. Week off and, all the good stuff. I did a little bit of travel out with my wife to Montana to, watch one of her younger sisters graduate high school. So that was a big deal in her world.

Andres Sandate: 00:36

Well, there's been a, a lot of news over the last, it seems like 72 hours, maybe even 24 hours, but for sure, yeah, a lot of developments over the last couple of weeks in crypto land.

Robert Swarthout: 00:49

Yeah. Absolutely. I, was reviewing, kinda trying to come up with a list for what we were gonna talk about. And I was looking at, oh, so we hadn't done a show in 2 weeks. You know, there's gonna be a ton of news.

Robert Swarthout: 00:58

We're gonna have to figure out how to cram it in. The 1st week, I'm glad we kinda didn't do it last week. We wouldn't have tons to talk about. Yeah. And then, it has been made up for in, like you say, in a very quick fashion over the basically, Sunday evening into Monday all the way through today.

Robert Swarthout: 01:12

So I guess we should get going here. So something that happened, last week, is this first bullet point, SAB 121 stands for staff accounting bulletin from the SEC. Basically to, this is around custody of crypto at banks, a traditional banking institution. And this, this SAB 121, I wanna say it's been around for 9, 12 months. I I think it kinda came out of, the mess of FTX, if my understanding is correct.

Robert Swarthout: 01:42

And it basically said that banks, if they wanted to custody crypto, had to account for them on their balance sheet in a way such that if for every dollar of crypto that was held, they had to hold another dollar in reserve. It basically meant that no banks wanted to touch crypto. I mean, like, no banks wants to have extra stuff they have to have a liability for, and this was, in my opinion, a way for the banking regulators that had a little bit more of a political bent to them, to be anti crypto. Basically making the banks do this. So it was cool to see that repealed.

Robert Swarthout: 02:16

I think the news really around that, not just that it got passed, it's waiting for the president to sign immediately, and it looks like that will happen. But the the important part, I think, of all this is it's been pushed for by Republicans for a while. The Democrats came around in good numbers, and supported it in many prominent Democrat names, So it's not a part not as much a partisan issue issue as it might have seemed at first, and it really sent a message, I think, up the chain of the Democrat party to be like, listen. This is crypto is an important thing. We don't wanna lose our seats if, if you're up for reelection in the fall, and, kind of, you know, let's get in line here and kinda start figuring this mess out.

Robert Swarthout: 02:59

So

Andres Sandate: 03:00

Yeah. I mean, last week, as you talked about, we didn't have a show, but I was doing a lot of reading on the headlines and it did start to feel like last week. You saw it. You saw this, gathering momentum around the the topic of crypto being a swing issue, if you will, in, you know, in the upcoming elections. And that ball continued to roll downhill, if you will, this week where, there's been even more headlines.

Andres Sandate: 03:27

And we saw, you know, the White House even come out in, I guess, you could say more of a pro crypto sort of stance. They're certainly not, in favor or at least are not posturing to be, pro crypto, but, but have backed off considerably in terms of their rhetoric and language, over the last, just like you said, 48 hours. So this

Robert Swarthout: 03:52

is how quickly yeah.

Andres Sandate: 03:54

This is how quickly things can, can change.

Robert Swarthout: 03:57

Yeah. It's, yeah. We'll get to the White House thing in a sec, but it it's pretty it's pretty crazy. You know, I had when the s, SAB thing was happening last week and then kind of, I guess, early part of this week, people were trying to, like, think through it and just kinda, like, what it meant. And Mhmm.

Robert Swarthout: 04:14

One way that I heard it broken down was, you know, there's roughly 15,000,000 people in the United States that hold crypto in some form. I think that's kinda comes from a Coinbase stat. But because so you have 15,000,000 people that are at least interested in it. Right? I mean, they may not be huge crypto bulls, but they're interested.

Robert Swarthout: 04:32

There's probably you can probably count them on less than one hand. So less than 5 people in the whole country that would vote for a president if he was anti crypto. Like, that that person just doesn't exist. But the flip side is there's a potentially millions of people that would vote in, you know, if if they came down to a single issue, they would vote for a president because they were pro crypto. And then, you know, a couple weeks ago Trump did come out and say that, you know, if he was reelected, he would pass crypto regulation.

Robert Swarthout: 05:03

In in in fairness, Kennedy has also said the same thing. So it's really, like, they they were pitted against Biden. I think Biden is probably potentially looking for, ways to kind of not have all those issues be part of the, political debate. Yeah. Yeah.

Andres Sandate: 05:20

Well, and Trump Trump's campaign did come out, I think, this week, maybe today and announced that they're gonna accept a couple of, meme coins, for for donation. I think Shiba Inu and and maybe Doge. So

Robert Swarthout: 05:32

Yeah.

Andres Sandate: 05:33

As as as, you know, we know politicians are pretty opportunistic and and willing to, to to jump on a trend, especially if it's it's gonna gather momentum and make headlines.

Robert Swarthout: 05:46

Yeah. Yep. So I guess kind of proceeding to our second topic here, and this is a bit of a there's a thread from SAB 121 through this EETF news. So earlier on Tuesday, Eric Balhas, I think it had to say his last name from Bloomberg. From Bloomberg?

Robert Swarthout: 06:05

Yeah. So he used to be an ETF analyst, and he came out and said that from everything that he was seeing, he was changing his 25% chance that we had a e t excuse me, an ETH Ethereum ETF approved, tomorrow being Thursday, changing it from 25% to 75%. That that is one heck of a swing. And I think it probably caught everyone off guard, in in a positive way, except for the likely, attorney at the SEC that had already written the denial letter. I imagine that had been written weeks ago, and then all of a sudden they had to start doing work.

Robert Swarthout: 06:43

So apparently, the SEC started reaching out to the different applicants and asking for revisions and doing all the work that you thought they should have been doing all along if they were actually gonna approve it. So some of the minutia that I've kind of heard, and you will have to see really what comes of it, is that the the ETFs are not allowed to do staking. So there wouldn't be that cash flow component, if you wanna call it cash flow. You know, I think eventually that they do allow that, but I think up front, they're trying to maybe make it more kinda fit the same mold as the Bitcoin one, which wouldn't have that anyways. So it's just I don't know.

Robert Swarthout: 07:17

It's it's crazy times to think that all of a sudden we could, have an approval soon. It doesn't sound like they would first start if they're approved tomorrow, they would start trading on Friday. It's probably a couple weeks because they're still they gotta get everybody in line because they took they did this over the course of a month for Bitcoin rather rapid rapid pace, but they're not gonna do it in 2 days, with Ethereum. So Right. Yeah.

Andres Sandate: 07:40

And Yeah. It's it's remarkable how, you know, how it was quiet for the better part of, you know, a month, call it. And then in the matter of, like, the weekend or a couple of days

Robert Swarthout: 07:52

Right.

Andres Sandate: 07:53

You know, we saw this rush, if you will, of the issuers to go and update their s ones. And, you know, clearly, there's a lot of back channel communication happening. It you know, and then I even saw just as a sub headline to this, the CLO, the chief legal officer of Ripple came out and said at this point, no news maybe for you, Robert, and those that are are, you know, crypto watchers and, obviously, crypto investors. But effectively, just another major executive saying that the SEC and Gensler is just a liability, like, at this point. It's slowing down, like, a train that's clearly moving down out the station.

Andres Sandate: 08:42

And he, you know, he being Gensler, stuck his neck out and was gonna be the, you know, the the crypto savior. And now appears all the financial interests and many, many big financial players are saying, we're doing crypto and it's gonna happen. And the SEC just looks, I don't wanna say it looks foolish. That's that's unfair, but it just it it looks like they're they're a little bit on their back foot.

Robert Swarthout: 09:06

Yeah. You know, the fascinating thing about that whole thing is is when Gensler was teaching at MIT, he taught crypto. Like, he understood it. He talked very positive about it. Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 09:15

He said there needed to be regulation. All the things that you would think. I was so excited when he was selected as SCC chair, and goodness, I couldn't have been more wrong about him to this point. And I often wonder if he is executing someone else's vision for the SEC rather than his own. One might say it's Elizabeth Warren's vision when it comes to crypto, but also it's almost like they told him to do, you know, anti crypto, and he's like, hold my beer, and goes off and just goes absolute crazy with it, to the point where he became a liability.

Robert Swarthout: 09:46

And in in many ways, my understanding is his ambition is he wanted to be the the next treasury secretary to the point where he may have blown that chance if if assuming Biden got reelected, but I don't know. It's just fascinating world, and hopefully, we kinda get through that. So we, and we'll be talking about regulation here in the next couple points. I think that kind of ties back into this, but so so we kinda started to get some more news about the, the top Bitcoin ETF holders. Kinda kinda cool to kinda see different names popping up there.

Andres Sandate: 10:20

Yeah. I I saw some headlines. I mean, this is all back to the quarterly, reporting that is done by, you know, some of these big, some of these big investment firms or or asset owners. But, you know, we're seeing, like, the state of Wisconsin investment board, the pension fund is a big owner, of of of Bitcoin, some very large asset managers, and, you know, the notion that this is maybe a do it yourself retail investor base obviously is is changing quickly,

Robert Swarthout: 10:55

and

Andres Sandate: 10:55

we're continuing to see more and more reports that BlackRock and the likes of BlackRock that advise a lot of these big institutional asset managers and asset owners, are saying that it's more and more education, reeducation. And you'd think that if the, you know, the, ETF, you know, the Ethereum ETFs are, are approved and start trading in the next month or 2, that that's only gonna continue.

Robert Swarthout: 11:25

Yeah. You know, it's I was kinda blown away by a few of these numbers. So Bracebridge Capital, which manages the Yale and Princeton University endowments or portions of them. They reported holding 3 different Bitcoin ETFs, the, the Ark, the BlackRock, and the Grayscale ETFs for a collective $426,000,000. Like, that's that's a serious I don't care.

Robert Swarthout: 11:48

I mean, those are big endowments, but, like, that's still, you know, ironically, they're probably not even at 1% of the endowment, but it's still big numbers at least in the in the crypto space. So Yeah. It's pretty cool to kinda see that happening and, you know, kinda watching it, unfold over time. So, yeah. And, you know, I think that I had wondered up up until these 13 f filing started coming out, like, was it institutional?

Robert Swarthout: 12:16

Was it more, retail? Obviously, it was more retail than anything else at this point, but over time I think institutions will certainly be a bigger portion than retail, and it just institutions just move slower. And, That's right. They they're rarely in a rush.

Andres Sandate: 12:30

That's right. The capital tends to be stickier and there there's more of a strategic allocation. Sometimes it's tactical, but

Robert Swarthout: 12:38

by and large,

Andres Sandate: 12:38

you know, when when they initiate a position, it's

Robert Swarthout: 12:39

in size. And like you said, 1% or 2%

Andres Sandate: 12:45

is a meaningful number when you're talking tens or even 100 of 1,000,000,000 of dollars. So Yep. There has to be enough liquidity in the underlying assets or security for for them to initiate a position. But I, but I also know the state of Wisconsin has a reputation for being a pretty forward looking, forward thinking, pension fund and investment board when it comes to alternatives and and call it nontraditional strategies. So

Robert Swarthout: 13:14

it's

Andres Sandate: 13:14

pretty interesting to see, I would say not completely surprising that a group like them is and and Yale as well, which is, you know, David Swenson, the famous and late David Swenson, which, you know, was was well known and is well regarded still, as as kind of the father of alternative investing when it comes to endowments. But the fact that, you know, these big kind of well known forward thinking institutional investors, are investing in the, you know, in in the space. I think, they would likely have been the early adopters if there were, and now it'll be interesting to see is, you know, who else, begins to try to get exposure. And, and like you said, I think it's, maybe not the quickest moving group of investors, but when they do move, they move in size, and there's always, imitators. So Yep.

Andres Sandate: 14:11

That's cool.

Robert Swarthout: 14:13

Next topic. So is this is a bit of a question slash kinda surprise here, but the White House is for crypto crypto regulation. Had we recorded the show last week, we would have said absolutely no chance. Yeah. Had we recorded the show Monday morning?

Robert Swarthout: 14:27

Still the same. Have we recorded yesterday? Still the same. As of this morning, the, the White House put out a, I guess, a policy statement of sorts saying that, you know, they are for reasonable and sensible crypto regulation. Again, this is back to getting voters.

Robert Swarthout: 14:43

You gotta understand why they're doing this. You know, and I'm kind of reading from a tweet from a guy named Adam Cochran. He's an attorney, a crypto attorney on Twitter, that kind of does a great job summarizing here. He says the language was sensible. It it and identifies the tech as morally neutral, which up until this point, the Democrats, line has been, only drug dealers and people doing bad stuff use crypto.

Robert Swarthout: 15:05

Yeah. Yeah. It also kind of gives the ground for anybody that wants to

Andres Sandate: 15:12

Kinda hard to say that when, you know, these these institutions like BlackRock and other major donors

Robert Swarthout: 15:17

You're right.

Andres Sandate: 15:18

Are are writing checks to your, to your party, and and in competitive house races up and down the ticket to say, you know, only drug dealers and, you know, immoral illegal activity is happening in crypto land. So, yeah, I mean, things are gonna change quickly.

Robert Swarthout: 15:32

Yeah. And, you know, it gives also gives a pass to be a nonpartisan issue, which is great. Most things should be. And, lets the politics politicians vote, how they view crypto rather than on a party by party stance. You know?

Robert Swarthout: 15:49

So this happened this morning. There's also a bill being voted on today called fit f I t 21, I believe, that is a crypto framework that, is trying to get passed to congress. You know, granted there was momentum with the SAB 121, there might be some momentum here. And the bill does need some work. I think it will first pass, this I think it's in the house right now.

Robert Swarthout: 16:17

And then it would go on to maybe get some massaging in the senate and then potentially, on it goes. The it's, I I I've been so for we beat this the regulation drum so many times, the drum is broken. This is catching me off guard, admittedly, on how fast this might be happening. And who knows where the pressure's coming from to get it done. Is it truly the election?

Robert Swarthout: 16:43

I thought there was no chance something would be passed in the this summer and fall because of this political season, not not not the vice versa. It it will happen because it is a political season. So it's just mind boggling.

Andres Sandate: 16:56

Well, I could see a scenario playing out. I mean, politics is, you know, anyone's guess. Right? But you you could see a scenario out where a set of voter friendly proposals or voter friendly language comes out. And I mean crypto voter language comes out, which is somewhat to appease, get through the election and then, you know, announce whether it's a, I was just thinking the term crypto czar, you know, somebody who can rally, and has respect from kind of both sides to try to rally around, you know, what to do.

Andres Sandate: 17:36

Because, you know, the the the downside is depending on who wins the White House and how, what happens in congress, You may just have polarization, and who knows? We we may not even have a a settled election until the Q1 of 25. Right?

Robert Swarthout: 17:51

Right.

Andres Sandate: 17:51

Yeah. However it goes, it just could it could just be uncertain. And so, therefore, the idea of getting legislation through in the Q1 could be tossed up in the air. And so who knows? Like, there's there's one thought process in my mind where it's like, this is all just to sort of appease voters who are on the fence to not be afraid of you know, if if you're anti Biden, not be afraid of of Biden.

Andres Sandate: 18:17

On the other hand, if you're if you're pro democrat and pro Biden, you have to sort of look at Trump's language around crypto and say he's for it. And what is the legislation gonna look like? How quickly could they get something done? So I think, I think it's a long shot that they do something between now and the end of the year, because I just think it looks so obvious that they're trying to jam something through. But I do think the idea of I I just wonder if the idea of having an I don't know if there's word neutral works in DC anymore.

Andres Sandate: 18:53

But having somebody who could be looked at by the industry and by congress, as effective at getting sensible regulation in front of, Congress in order to move the needle? Because I just wonder if if Congress can do it or if we need some, you know, I don't know if it's a Larry Fink type person, but somebody that comes from industry that can, you know, propel people to establish, you know, even if it's stable coin legislation to start. Yeah. It'll be, I'd be curious who you think that could be. Is there anybody in the industry that could do that?

Andres Sandate: 19:34

Because Jamie Dimon, you know, he's announced this week that he's not gonna stay at JPMorgan for 5 years. But I'm just thinking about something somebody like that Mhmm. You know, over the next 5 years who has the respect largely of the business community, largely the, you know, the political community, like, his next act, could it be to try to put in place regulation? Ironically, he was very against this. Yes.

Andres Sandate: 20:01

But

Robert Swarthout: 20:02

Well this

Andres Sandate: 20:02

feels like we need somebody that can kind of be the the sort of Federal Reserve of crypto over the next 5 years.

Robert Swarthout: 20:09

I, it would not be Jamie Dimon. He doesn't wanna talk about Bitcoin. He's made that clear. No. Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 20:17

Larry Fink, I think he's too much of a salesman, and I like the work he's doing now. I don't wanna distract him. And I would I might go off the beaten path a little bit. He's probably less recognized by the business community, but he is an attorney, John Deaton, who is actually running against, Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts or Maryland, wherever she's at. You know, if he wins, obviously, he'll get her seat.

Robert Swarthout: 20:42

But I think that if he doesn't win, it could be an interesting thing for him to do because he has the respect of the crypto community, like, 3 and 3. He's the one that, represented 75,000 Amica, representatives in the, Ripple, SEC case, and he has really built a brand. He's an attorney, by trade, and he is kind of he could be an interesting one there. I think that finding someone that the business community has a lot of respect for, but is also crypto savvy and understands it all is gonna be tough. There's that that list is probably maybe 5 people, largely because most business people don't get crypto yet Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 21:24

Deep enough. But there there might be some other names out there that's not coming to mind, but I don't know. It's an interesting question. I have to think about that some more.

Andres Sandate: 21:32

Yeah. Well, so it kinda leads to the second to last point about crypto regulation coming soon, and maybe this is what we've sort of already talked about. But is your sense I know that my view is that it's tough to think, you know, we get something in place between now November. Do you do you foresee a scenario where there's regulation some type of regulation that's passed between now and the end of the year? 24?

Robert Swarthout: 21:56

Had you asked me this time yesterday, no no chance. What what's happened today with the bill that's going on with the momentum last week from the SAB 121 vote Yeah. With the with the Biden administration's policy statement today being a little bit more thawed than I would have ever expected them to say. I don't know. 5050 chances?

Robert Swarthout: 22:17

Like, it's probably the best chances we've ever had, I think. You know, I used to think it was better when congress was a little more cooperative, but maybe now that everyone's cooperating because they wanna get some votes. And maybe as a voter in a crypto, person that cares a lot about crypto, maybe we can get something out of this, rather than just some votes, along the way. The bill that the FIT FIT bill does need some work, but I think that can get worked through. We do the first need to get through this first side of Congress to, get the ball rolling, and I think there'll be enough pressure.

Robert Swarthout: 22:50

If it can get through both houses, I think we can get a presidential signature, because he doesn't wanna be the woman that says no, to 15,000,000 people in the country.

Andres Sandate: 23:01

Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 23:02

I don't know. May maybe it's greater than 50. Maybe we'll give you 6040. Ask an equity.

Andres Sandate: 23:06

Yeah. I was gonna say, it's just something that could change, in in a matter of literally hours and days like it did this week. So

Robert Swarthout: 23:14

Yeah. I think they're voting maybe roughly an hour from now. So we will know by the end of the day at least if it passed the first house portion. Not the house, first half of Congress.

Andres Sandate: 23:24

Yeah. Well, there's definitely I think one of the headlines I was gonna say last week, was just the amount of money that's being raised by the industry, that being crypto, that's going to fund competitive races. Yes. And when, you know, when when you're in a competitive race and you've gotta raise money, you've gotta do fundraising, you've gotta run ads, And you you start to go into the summer period where, you know, you're looking 3 and 4 5 months out, you're you know, you're going to start thinking about where the dollar is going to come from. And, you know, the crypto industry has raised a lot of cash over the last, 3 months, 4 months.

Andres Sandate: 24:10

And so they're gonna be putting that to work, and they're gonna put it to work in races where they think they have a chance to influence the outcome. Yep. And so in those house and congressional and senate races, where a candidate is pro crypto, you know, you can expect that they're gonna be leaning on their networks and contacts and and their party to say, we need to get something done. So money talks in in

Robert Swarthout: 24:31

DC. Absolutely. I if I think I remember this name correctly. So there's a super pack that's set up specifically by the industry. I think it's Stan with Crypto is the name of it.

Robert Swarthout: 24:41

I need to double check that, but the whatever the name is, they had raised, like, $80,000,000. This is some, like, serious money, and they were gonna spend it on both sides of the aisle if if the candidate is pro crypto and, uses sensible ways to think about it, you know, you know, potentially there's some money there, for them in their race. So, you know, personally, I don't know if I'm a single, issue voter right now, but I'm probably pretty close to it, given the choices that we have, going forward. So anyways. So today is Bitcoin pizza day.

Robert Swarthout: 25:15

This is

Andres Sandate: 25:15

one that it's just a fascinating sort of,

Robert Swarthout: 25:18

you

Andres Sandate: 25:18

know, new new news. Just to go back and revisit, you know, this transaction. Yep. Tell tell us the details.

Robert Swarthout: 25:26

Yep. So in 2010, May 22, 2010, a, guy named Laszlo, bought 2 bought 2 pizzas over the internet with bitcoin using 10,000 bitcoin. They were valued at the time, I believe, at 4 tenths of a cent, per Bitcoin. So, obviously, very little. Bitcoin had been around for probably a little over a year at that point.

Robert Swarthout: 25:53

And so he basically bought 2 pizzas worth $40. And I was actually when I saw this you know, when this headline came back up today and it refreshed me, I'm like, man, a pizza in 2010 I've seen $20 a piece. That's that's like the prices today. Like, I don't know where he was got got these pieces at, but they were just Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 26:10

Exactly. Maybe the maybe the market maker in case was, had a little bit of, spread there. Anyways, jokes aside, so he spent that and he's he's done many interviews, this guy, since then in typically yearly on the state. He ends up in the news, obviously. And, he he says he doesn't regret it.

Robert Swarthout: 26:29

He was just a technology guy trying to find ways to use the Bitcoin that he was mining. If he still had those 10,000 Bitcoin today, they would be worth $700,000,000. So I'm sure I mean, I see a picture here of those pizzas. They look good. I'm not sure they look like $700,000,000 good.

Robert Swarthout: 26:46

One looks like a cheese pizza, and one looks like I mean, there's a bunch of stuff on it.

Andres Sandate: 26:50

But this was the transatlantic trade. Right?

Robert Swarthout: 26:53

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that it was he was in the UK and he and the guy was in America or vice versa. And it but basically, it didn't happen like he didn't, like, call Papa John's and offer them 10,000 Bitcoin. Sure. It was some guy in line took his Bitcoin, literally called the local pizza shop wherever the other guy was at, the buyer, and, ordered 2 pizzas to his house.

Robert Swarthout: 27:15

So it was pretty cool. He's got his, looks like 2 sons in the photo with him. So, you know, they're they're a bit Internet famous too, I guess, in that sense. But I I tend to, wanna do pizza on, days like this. So maybe I have some pizza tonight for dinner.

Robert Swarthout: 27:29

So

Andres Sandate: 27:30

Yeah. No kidding. I mean, $700,000,000. I mean, only in hindsight. So one thing that we didn't talk about is, you know, with with the news around, these, Ethereum ETF, the spot Ethereum ETF, products potentially getting approved, let's call it over the next month or so.

Andres Sandate: 27:50

Bitcoin's had a little bit of a rally over the last week.

Robert Swarthout: 27:52

Yeah. You know, I think there was a bit of a rally into late last week. Yeah. More of the rally that has come the last few days was the SAB 121 vote, and just general, like, positive news around crypto. Yeah.

Robert Swarthout: 28:05

Positive. Crypto can be, you know, kind of hit the whim or whatever the winds are, and lately the winds have been not so great over the last call it month and a half. But, some positive, wind came through and, you know, it looks like it might be turning into more of, more continued wins in that sense. So

Andres Sandate: 28:25

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, April was April was a tough month, I mean Yeah. Generally speaking for the industry, but it does it does seem, you you know, that at least over the last, call it, week, or so that, there's been some rallying in, in a number of of the tokens, especially Bitcoin, which has all touched 70,000 at one point this week.

Robert Swarthout: 28:47

On the topic, one thing I forgot to mention about the ETF, the Ethereum ETF or potential of is, you know, there was a lot of interest in the Bitcoin. Well, a lot of pent up demand. A lot of people know the brand outside of crypto, know the brand of Bitcoin. That is less so for Ethereum. Right.

Robert Swarthout: 29:04

But Bitcoin also had that sell off for roughly 7 to 10 days following the launch. I think that was largely due to the there was a bunch of bankruptcies happening, and there was a bunch of creditors trying to get out of those products that were held in those, those estates. That doesn't really hasn't happened or or couldn't happen in the Ethereum case, because there's no product they could have been holding. So it'd be interesting to kinda see. I don't think that it's a, you know, buy the news and, you know, you know, you know, buy the rumor, sell the news event, but I don't know.

Robert Swarthout: 29:36

There won't be nearly as much demand, I wouldn't think, at least on a dollar basis.

Andres Sandate: 29:41

Yeah. I I I think the the average investor that, owns only Bitcoin. Right. In terms of crypto in their portfolio.

Robert Swarthout: 29:50

Yep.

Andres Sandate: 29:51

I'll be interested to know what do they actually know about Ethereum.

Robert Swarthout: 29:57

Or can I even say the name? Right.

Andres Sandate: 30:00

So right. It's going to be it's it's going to be a fun summer. It's going to be a fun summer.

Robert Swarthout: 30:04

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, we we have something to talk about next week, so maybe there's some more. That's right. So awesome.

Robert Swarthout: 30:09

That's right.

Andres Sandate: 30:09

Well, it's good seeing you. Good seeing you. Yep.

Robert Swarthout: 30:11

So thanks for joining us on this episode of the weekly crypto check-in. If you want to stay updated on future episodes, and you can find us in any podcast player by searching Teton Crypto Capital or weekly crypto check-in. Take care.