Ep 43 - September 24, 2025 - Altcoin ETFs
Welcome to another episode of the weekly crypto check-in recorded on 09/24/2025. I'm your host, Robert Swarta, and joined by my cohost, Andres Sadatin. How's it going, Andres?
Andres Sandate:Hey. Good, Robert. I'm, down here on fall break in the thirty a here in Florida. So, glad to be remote, but, also to check-in on what's happening in crypto. How are you?
Robert Swarthout:Good. Good. Doing good. I imagine there's not much crypto on the beach down there, so maybe this is, you're having a good vacation. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Yeah. A few conversations, you know, about what's happening in in the financial markets and crypto, I think, some people, is interesting. So Yeah. Yeah.
Andres Sandate:It's been it's it's been a couple of weeks since we recorded. So, hopefully, you've been good and, holding things down in Atlanta.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I'm trying to. And and certainly, the news is starting to pick up. You know, we were doing these weekly for a while, then the summer kinda got slow, and it is certainly getting back to probably a weekly pace going forward. So, anyway, we'll jump in here.
Robert Swarthout:So our first topic is about the new SEC rules on crypto ETFs. We've talked a little bit about this in the past, but they they basically approved it last, I believe, last Monday, so a week ago. And, you know, I also thought that possibly, like, it was gonna take some time. I don't know why I thought that, like, afterwards, but literally the next day, some ETF started trading. And it was at first, it was a head scratcher.
Robert Swarthout:I couldn't figure out if the news is fake or not, but it was real. So there was a Doge ETF launch, and there was an XRP ETF launch. There's a lot of them still waiting to come. There's, I think, goodness, over a 100 crypto ETFs. And, also, I think it was on Wednesday last week, the Grayscale Trust that had the top five biggest cryptos that are not stablecoins as an, quote, unquote, index, that guy can approve to convert from being a trust to a true ETF.
Robert Swarthout:So you actually have a real trading crypto index out there now.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. That was a rapid fire last week around a lot of these these launches. And I guess, you know, we talked about this last time. One of the things I wanted to try to do is sort of put a a retail angle on there or the what's the impact on on retail, particularly, you know, private wealth so that more more folks that are listening who may be advisers or thinking about going to their adviser for, you know, questions or or maybe interest in digital assets and crypto. I think the takeaway here is that, you know, this just continues to solidify, I guess, the shift around, you know, capital and easing, you know, easing the ability for really the market to dictate if there's interest in the products.
Andres Sandate:And, I mean, you know, reducing, obviously, in some cases, delays and administrative red tape and really just opening up, like you said, the number of issues still to come. It's just broadening the exposure to the space. So, yeah, pretty dramatic, like, move, yes you know, last week. And Right. I think there's just gonna be a lot more coverage of the overall space now that you have, you know, this many more spot ETFs, you know, on Solana and XRP and Doge and and others to come.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. Exactly. You know, it's between now and the end of the year, we probably could literally talk about an ETF launch every episodes and probably would cover them all. So it'd be interesting to see how we choose to do that. But it's a what what I'm most excited about yes.
Robert Swarthout:The individual spot ones are coming, but for, like, the financial advisors out there that want to have exposure for their clients, like, these index ones are fascinating. I know Bitwise has one coming an application that is the top 10 index, which I think is a little bit more realistic than just the top five crypto because that could be obviously very heavily weighted.
Andres Sandate:Right.
Robert Swarthout:We'll see how it goes.
Andres Sandate:But Yeah. We have seen a lot of spot or pardon, not spot, but with single stock ETFs, you know, and there's a lot more customization in general in the ETF space and thematic exposure. So I agree. I think crypto's in a different space, than than US equities. I think that many advisers are looking for regulated products.
Andres Sandate:They're looking for more regulation and compliance, and they're looking for the ability to get liquidity. And so if if, yeah, if you see these indexes come where they can get broad broader exposure than single crypto exposure, you know, it's just less less complication, less research that the individual adviser has to do.
Robert Swarthout:Right. You know, and then, you know, now that we have more than just Bitcoin and Ethereum, it's gonna be interesting to see how these ETFs kinda play against each other Yeah. And see what the market thinks. But I should have said upfront, what was approved was you have to have six months of coverage on Coinbase futures for that particular token asset to have the ability to do the accelerated process to get approved for trading. So there's nothing in it about staking currently.
Robert Swarthout:So I think there's some, you know, potentially some revisions to this over time, but I think this starts helping relieve some of the pressure on the SEC to kind of onesie twosie approve these things, which was never gonna seem super exciting. So, anyways, moving on to our second topic, talking about Tethr. So the issuer or maintainer of the largest stablecoin out there, USTT, they did a couple things this last week. They announced that they're launching a US specific version of USDT called USAT that basically is the Genius Act compliant. Great.
Robert Swarthout:I think it raises more questions than answers personally because of, what does it say about USDT? But also that, a, they're gonna be focused on the market and just generally, like they seem to be, I guess, catching some tailwinds, they think, because they're also raising some money out there in in to I guess, a v e VC perspective. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. At a a pretty sizable valuation. I mean, what's out there is 500,000,000,000.
Robert Swarthout:Uh-huh.
Andres Sandate:That's with a b. Yes. And, you know, you see this as a move to to take on Tether or Tether to challenge, you know, Circle with USDC.
Robert Swarthout:Yep.
Andres Sandate:Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I think it's that and it's 500,000,000,000 would, I believe, make them the most high highly valued private company in the world as far as I could tell or VC backed private company. So I don't know. 500,000,000,000 seems rather rich to me. Again, I don't see we don't have all the details behind the scenes, but they don't own the stablecoin.
Robert Swarthout:They own the rights to the interest in the stablecoin that you know? But that's that's a big, big delta Yeah. In those numbers. So maybe we'll see. And and I look forward.
Robert Swarthout:You would think that whoever puts in $20,000,000,000 would want an audit. If they ever publish that audit, I think there's a lot of people that'd be really curious because the Ripple assuming not Ripple. Tethr has been really curious about being not doing an audit all these years. So Yeah. Well, the
Andres Sandate:the key is they're seeking a $500,000,000,000 valuation. That doesn't mean that they'll necessarily get it in the private placement round. So
Robert Swarthout:Yep.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. More more to come. But, yeah, definitely was a big headline.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. Awesome. So our third topic to me is was cool to see, not because it was fundamentally changing anything, but this was the first time that you could sell so twenty four seven, three sixty five, you could sell BlackRock's ETF Buildo, so that the one that has the tokenized treasuries and the VanEck version of it. And you could sell those $24.07 into RLUSD, so Ripple stablecoin that is on Ethereum. And soon, you'd be able to do the same thing for the RLUSD that's on the XRP Ledger.
Robert Swarthout:We're about to be in that world where crypto is twenty four seven. We've been there forever. The traditional market's about to be in a tokenized world that's twenty four seven that, in some ways, changes the news cycle a little bit. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I mean, it gives investors the ability to get, obviously, frequent or immediate yield access. Obviously, reduces settlement times and provides this, like, I guess, could say bridge from traditional to to blockchain Yeah. Based strategies with with respect to the the $24.07, like, $3.65 conversion Mhmm. Between the fund shares and the on chain stablecoins.
Andres Sandate:So I think, you know, takeaway for investors and advisers is that, you know, the the the discussion around real world assets, RWA, and in particular, you know, fund shares. You know, we're starting with more institutional funds like BlackRock's. But eventually, the potential is that you could see private funds, private placements, and other illiquid assets be tokenized and, move on to the blockchain via various platforms where there would be, you know, the ability to actually access the yield, get liquidity, in very different, terms and and different, you know, sort of different structural elements than exist today where you have, you know, typically, like, a one year lockup in private funds or longer. Some funds, the lockup can be, you know, ten to twelve years if we're talking like venture. Right.
Andres Sandate:And and the minimum investments are typically for accredited investors and above, you know, qualified purchaser funds, qualified institutional funds can be, you know, minimums $50,100,000 dollars for an accredited investor Mhmm. All the way up to minimums of a million or 5 or 10,000,000 or larger. So this, you know, this is the beginning of this, you know, conversation around tokenized funds. I think we'll see much, much more of this, you know, in the next year or two.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And it's you know, this I guess, this ties together. Like, an episode ago, we talked about how the Nasdaq had filed with the SEC to be able to tokenize their ledger. I mean, this is no different. This is just basically doing Nasdaq's doing it for function all the things that trade on their platform versus, you know, just this one example.
Robert Swarthout:And it was cool to see not just Ripple tweeting about this and kinda be in the news, Securitize, which has helped running that platform for those. And I think even BlackRock got in on the news a little bit. So pretty cool to see. So we'll move on to our fourth topic here, which is the SEC's evolving the regulatory framework for crypto. So we have talked about this, admittedly, in the first topic a little bit, but it just it's cool to see them, you know, trying to push things forward.
Robert Swarthout:Right? Yeah. You have Paul Atkins literally this last week saying crypto's time has come. Most crypto tokens are not securities. Like, it again, it I don't know if we could be more than a 180 degrees from where where a year ago, but we are.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I mean, I think this whole regulatory signaling with with these public statements is giving issuers and and is giving market participants just a tremendous amount of confidence to move forward with with initiatives, projects, partnerships. You know? And and, certainly, I I think we're gonna continue to see, you know, the market reacting to this, you know, the signaling and this regulatory regime by saying, you know, this is a growth space for us, in addition to alternatives and and private markets. You know, as I've talked about, I think crypto joins that.
Andres Sandate:And I don't think it stops, you know, with with, with just things like ETFs and and real world assets for advisers. I think, you know, you'll start to see a push for, pension funds and four zero one k's and retirement plans, you know, that really can have a potential impact on individual investors and advisers, I think you'll start to see a lot more diversification and menus of of offerings that include digital assets. You know, I don't know that it happens in 2025 or 2026, but I think, you know, to the extent that, the regulatory regime and posture is what it is today for the foreseeable future, I think it's not too distant future where, you know, the the retirement space starts to really think about embracing some of these digital asset strategies. They might typically be from the biggest issuers to start, but but I think that that day is not too far off.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I agree. I yesterday, I was on Casey Smith's podcast that he does, Wiser Investor, and we talked literally the whole show about four zero one k's and crypto and four zero one k's. And what what I found fascinating because I I didn't quite understand all the nuances, I I guess I have a better appreciation now is just because the SEC allows it. And just say and just use Fidelity as example.
Robert Swarthout:Say they allow crypto ETFs in four zero one k's. Doesn't mean that if you go to your employer that uses Fidelity for ETFs that would even show up as an option because you have the trustees making the decision on what is not what is or is not available. And then they also could put restrictions around it. They could say, oh, you cannot allocate more than a certain percentage to this. So it's it's good news generally, but there's there's a lot of nuance to it that makes it not quite as as exciting potentially in the short term.
Robert Swarthout:So but long term, I think it's all there.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. One thing that we're, you know, doing at our firm, you know, at Gramercy with with the the retirement, plans having a lot of those restrictions is the some of the bigger plans have something called self directed brokerage. And I think this window
Robert Swarthout:Brokerage link. Yep.
Andres Sandate:Yeah, allows, you know, individuals that work at companies where maybe they don't have as much access to the broader diversified menu have the ability to use that brokerage link and that open window Mhmm. To go and identify an adviser and and to actually get more active management and more diversification around their retirement assets, you know, and not be limited and restricted to just what's on the menu. Because very likely at the biggest plans, you'll continue to see Yep. You know, a limited amount of alternatives and limited amount of crypto for the foreseeable future until, you know, there's there's much, much bigger, broader scale adoption. So I think it will come.
Andres Sandate:I just don't know, you know, how quickly. And I do think advisers, as we've said, like, we'll continue to, you know, need to lead the charge because I think individual investors who are relying upon their advisers are gonna follow their lead. And if advisers are not making, you know, recommendations, then it's, you know, it's very likely that individuals that have those respective advisers will probably continue to miss out.
Robert Swarthout:Absolutely. And, you know, obviously, this is bleeding into our next topic with crypto and four zero one k's. But, like, I was one thing I mentioned I hit in that podcast with Casey was if you think about crypto, crypto is, in my opinion, a long term investment. You can trade it day to day, but, like, I think it's you you're looking at a generational wave here that have changed to finance. That that marries up with the the type of thinking you should be thinking about in 04/2001 k that it's a long term vehicle.
Robert Swarthout:Right? So I think they do match in that way. But the trick is is, like, how do you take how do you take gains in a four zero one k if something grows outside? So, like, if you put in you say you did a 5% allocation, which would be probably be a high percentage in a four zero one k, and crypto does what we think it might do over the next five years, ten years, you have a very lopsided four zero one k potentially. So, like, how how do you re recalibrate those percentages over time?
Andres Sandate:Yeah. There's a there's an asset allocation and a reallocation exercise, right, when you see because the space has had more volatility than, say, other traditional asset classes. And most most of the retirement plans and pension funds, to some extent, have gotten more diversification, diversification, particularly, you know, some of the larger public plans in states like Texas and California Right. Illinois and Florida. But, you know, in Georgia, there's not as much in the way of alternatives in the public pension plans, you know, for for teachers and public employees.
Andres Sandate:But I think crypto is gonna have a little bit of a mountain to climb just because of the historical volatility. But I do think we see a day where four zero one k's and and pension plans do get an allocation, but it'll come down to having, you know, trustees and the right allocation tools and mechanisms in place because of historically, you know, just the volatility of the space.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And, you know, if I had to place a bet today, what's likely to show up in a 04/2001 k first is one of these index products Yeah. Rather than individual Bitcoin, Ethereum, XRP, whatever. So Yeah. We'll see.
Robert Swarthout:Moving on. So our second to last topic here is about Fed rate cuts and their their ripple effects on crypto. There if you if you've looked at all the crypto cycles and you've studied them, one thing that you may notice is crypto has never had a blow off bull market top in a in a situation where the Fed was not easing. Well, as of last week, with the rate cut, I think that we potentially are easing entering that easing cycle. This may be the last checkbox to full on crypto euphoria this fall or this winter.
Robert Swarthout:Obviously, not financial advice, but it's it's interesting to kinda see this last thing happen around the time that we think crypto might start moving again. Yeah.
Andres Sandate:You know, the the the move into what, I guess, I've always called more risk on appetite assets or risk assets like, you know, those that offer more, you know, attractive yields, those that have, you know, the the the ability to benefit from the, you know, the rotation out of, let's call it, safer assets into assets where there's, you know, the potential for more growth, the potential for, you know, the upside, and and I think all those things that benefit from more optimism. You know, we've seen we've seen some rallies recently. Right. I I think one thing that remains a a question will be, you know, just liquidity, right, over the the next several months, particularly in the in the fourth quarter through year end. That's gonna be something, you know, I've I've been reading up on and sort of following to to see how that, how this potential rally and liquidity plays out and what that dynamic looks like.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I was listening to, some kind of podcast the other day about I still don't realize there's still $7,000,000,000,000 sitting in money market accounts that obviously
Andres Sandate:That's right. Yeah. Yeah. The Wall Street Journal had an article about that. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:It's about to start earning a little bit less and potentially even less if as the Fed decides to cut even further. So, obviously, that's not all coming to crypto. I'm not trying to say
Andres Sandate:that at all. And or other assets. It's just gonna stay in money markets.
Robert Swarthout:Right. But, you know, I guess one of the questions that was raised is is, generally, is there just too much cash out there? Like, we're looking at these things like, look at this pile over here, but it may never move. So we'll see over time. Cool.
Robert Swarthout:Well, our last topic and we've kinda touched on this a little bit, but, you know, the year end market structure changes in crypto really come around to the senate passing in the in the house reconciling, the market structure bill. One thing that may be putting a slight kink in that is the CFTC, chair, kinda got reset. It was gonna be Brian Quintinese. That that nomination got pulled, so they're back to recruiting for that again. And you have, commissioner Pham that is, making progress, but only so much can be done with an interim, chair.
Robert Swarthout:So, hopefully, this doesn't get hold up, but there's, some, senators from the financial services committee saying that, the crypto market structure bill will pass by the end the year. So I I again, we have three ish months, but there's a lot of holidays in there. So it's gonna become very quick. And, we, get it done because that would be that would be a big thing.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I'm and that's exactly what I've been reading as well that, you know, that there is optimism that we'll see a bill, before the 2025. I I think the takeaway for me around this, if we do see a bill, I think one of the things that comes out of that is, you know well, several things. I think it it increases what we said earlier in the show around real world assets and tokenization. I think we see a lot more partnerships between the likes of the the the the infrastructure providers of the world and the asset managers where we're trying to bring real world assets on chain, and there's a lot more examples of those partnerships that come to to pass with this this market structure bill.
Andres Sandate:I think you see a lot more developments in areas of custody. I do think some of the bigger retail brokerage platforms will come online in '26 with with the passage of this bill. I think that they're just putting in place a lot of the infrastructure now so that when they get regulatory certainty, they can then be ready to go to market to try to attract more of those retail assets. And just generally, I mean and we've said this. There's a lot more institutional activity happening with all the crypto products that have been created, futures, exchange traded spot.
Andres Sandate:There's a lot more going on in ETFs, obviously, as we said in our very first headline just, you know, with what happened last week. But I think this overall fundamental reshaping of the digital asset and traditional asset and that bridge between the two and the deepening of it seems to be consistent through a lot of the research and reading that I've been doing. And and, obviously, that's a lot, but I think it comes down to you know, we've talked a lot about regulation in this industry and particularly on the show over the last, you know, six months, but we're not there yet. So, hopefully, by the end of this year, we we see some clarity, you know, that sometimes crypto in crypto, it can be hurry up and wait. And and and, hopefully, we get there this year.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And I and I think that when I when I first started talking about this, I probably should have been more clear. So the reason why the CFTC is likely, that share position is so important is a large majority of crypto is gonna be view likely to be viewed as a nonsecurity, it also ends up in the CFTC's lap to to basically control and regulate. So having the right person there and making sure that everyone's in line is super important. So fingers crossed they get that done, that that chair filled soon, and we can, get some market structure by the end of the year.
Robert Swarthout:Have a and have a great Christmas. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Christmas come early potentially. Yeah. Absolutely.
Robert Swarthout:Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us on this episode of the week weekly crypto check-in. To stay updated on future episodes, you can find us in any podcast player by searching T Time Crypto Capital or the weekly crypto check-in. Take care.
Disclaimer:The information presented in this podcast is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial investment, trading, or any other advice. The content provided is general in nature and not tailored to any individual specific circumstances. Always conduct your own due diligence and consult with a professional financial adviser before making any investment decisions. Cryptocurrency trading involves significant risks, including, but not limited to, the potential for loss of all or a portion of your investment market volatility and regulatory uncertainty. The hosts, guests, and producers of this podcast are not responsible for any decisions or actions taken based on the information discussed herein.
Disclaimer:Cryptocurrency is not legal tender in many jurisdictions and is subject to market risks. Past performance does not guarantee future results. This podcast does not endorse or guarantee any investment outcomes or results. Use of this podcast implies your acceptance of this disclaimer.
Creators and Guests
