Ep 40 - August 6, 2025 - SEC has been busy
Welcome to another episode of the weekly crypto check-in recorded on 08/06/2025. I'm your host, Robert Sworthout, and I'm joined by my cohost, Andres Sandate. How's it going, Andres?
Andres Sandate:Good, Robert. I hope you are doing well. We're here in early August. I know it's been a couple weeks since we recorded, and, you know, my kids are back in school, so things are much quieter, a little bit more of a routine and, you know, you look up and there's all this stuff going on in crypto and glad that we could jump on. How you been
Robert Swarthout:Doing good. You know, I don't generally like to talk about the weather, but it has been crazy here in Atlanta last few days. It feels like late October, early November. But next week, we'll be back to August, and no worries.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Exactly. Well, it's yeah, we got a early preview of what fall and football and the Southeast is all about football as people know. So we'll you know, early indications. So yeah, but lots to talk about here.
Andres Sandate:We find ourselves August 6 and we've had a big report from the government come out on crypto and some partnerships, a little bit of the SEC. But let's jump in.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. Well, our first topic is gonna be, about do crypto cycles have historical patterns? This is somewhat of a rhetorical question, somewhat of an actual question, and just an observation. I think part of the answer is yes. Every cycle is different.
Robert Swarthout:But, you know, people are always especially technical analysts in crypto, we're always looking at the charts trying to figure out when they can predict the next, whatever, up or down. And so if you kind of rewind in history for the 2017 bull run, for the 2021 bull run, and for what looks to be a 2025 bull run, Whenever the Bitcoin dominance, so that's Bitcoin versus the rest of the market, whenever it's MACD had a bit technical here, had a bearish golden cross. Basically, when a, I believe, a two hundred day moving average and a fifty day moving average when they cross on that chart that is indicated the beginning of alt season. And for some alts, it goes you know, some go sideways, don't do much. Others go 10 or a 100 x within three or four months.
Andres Sandate:And when you say beginning of alt season, just to cut in, so for our listeners, when you say alt season, you mean the alternative tokens out there, the alternative cryptos.
Robert Swarthout:Basically everything but Bitcoin.
Andres Sandate:Everything outside of Bitcoin. So Ethereum and Dogecoin and all these others.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. Pick pick one your favorite coin. Yeah. May go up or down. But all season generally, it's, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Robert Swarthout:You get very confident, you can get very confident. And, that's when people start overtrading, chasing. They they may have price targets and then, you know, like, oh, what? This this this time is different. It's always gonna go up.
Robert Swarthout:So they don't sell, then they end up getting to hold their crypto for another five years. So, anyway, we're not gonna talk all about the technicals here, but it's, that that cross happened. It happened roughly a week ago. Crypto hasn't immediately taken off, but it just kinda leaves the lends more credence to the idea that we are in for an interesting fall here in crypto and maybe early part of winter.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. As I don't know if the quote is attributed to Warren Buffett or or another another famous, you know, investor out there that, said that history doesn't repeat exactly, but it often rhymes. You're seeing that in a lot of news articles and a lot of people looking at the price of Bitcoin and trading in the 120s. I've seen different reports out there that we're again, we always have to say, this is an investment advice. The show is more about the headlines, but you are seeing some headlines out there from people saying, we could see this big pop in Bitcoin that could hit $2.25, $2.50 over the next year, year and a half, two years maybe.
Andres Sandate:So it'll be interesting. Something something to to pay attention to for sure.
Robert Swarthout:Indeed. So moving on to our second topic, PayPal is now enabling merchants to accept crypto. So, obviously, I can't imagine there's many people that live in today's society, at least here in America, that have bought things online that haven't bought it through PayPal at some point. And, generally, that's through your bank account or through a debit or credit card. Well, as of basically now, Bitcoin excuse me, PayPal has enabled, their merchants to accept up to a 100 different cryptos, as part of that transaction.
Robert Swarthout:And once, the transaction is, quote, unquote, confirmed, it would convert it into whatever currency that the merchant wants. So this is this is the future. I didn't expect PayPal to be on the leading edge like this, which is kinda cool to see someone that is surprising to it. They definitely have a lot of reach that could kinda nudge us along a little bit faster. But we it was a cool headline.
Robert Swarthout:So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Well, and a couple a couple of just additional thoughts around it. Number one, converted instantly to a fiat or stable coin. And the the I guess the recipient would have the option of converting it into PYUSB, which is pay house stablecoin and earning additional 4%. So sort of like their version of a, I guess you'd say a money market account.
Robert Swarthout:You know,
Andres Sandate:a lot of these bank accounts are out there. These alternative savings accounts are out there offering APA wise of 4%, 5%. So it's sort of like right in that range. Then the other thing is more of a question for you with this move and this integration. Do you have to have like a MetaMask or a Coinbase wallet in order to make that?
Robert Swarthout:That's a great question. I I don't know that answer. And and, admittedly, you probably don't even need to have a particular wallet. My guess is they're gonna give you you're gonna say, I wanna pay with Ethereum. I wanna pay with Bitcoin or whatever it may be.
Robert Swarthout:They're gonna give you an address. You would need to send send it to that address, whatever quantity it is. And at that point, they would, PayPal would watch for that transaction to be confirmed on the blockchain, which on the respective blockchain, and then the transaction would be completed at that point.
Andres Sandate:Yeah, because I have a Coinbase account. I mean, so I'm gonna have to go check out the app after the show and see if there's, you know, an app, like a new update or something that allows me to receive, right, the, I guess, the payment and how that how that impacts, you know, what what my Coinbase account is saying, for example, if I receive payment and then it
Robert Swarthout:But this is PayPal in this case, not
Andres Sandate:Or PayPal. Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:I you know, I'm sure there's more details that will need to be kind of made public, but Pretty interesting. Yeah. It's a I again, we we we've said this multiple times this year, especially over the last four months. But even nine months ago, this was not gonna be in my bingo card for 2025 now as part of our conversation. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:What PayPal or whoever it was. This was just like this seemed like fantasy land, but things are moving along quite quickly.
Andres Sandate:So They
Robert Swarthout:sure are. Yep. Another cool update, and we're gonna talk about the SEC a lot in this update, and we're not gonna be complaining about the SEC. This is gonna be a lot of positive. So this first one is they have we're gonna soon be allowing the ETFs.
Robert Swarthout:If you're an owner of ETF shares of the Bitcoin or Ethereum ETFs, you can, redeem those shares for, either a Bitcoin or Ethereum, in kind. And this was one of the big ask early on, but everyone was so excited to get any ETFs. They were willing to let this go. Because I I believe this is common for normal stock ETFs. You can do, redemptions in this manner.
Robert Swarthout:But, again, this is a one way street. This is not currently, as far as I can tell, the ability to bring Ethereum or Bitcoin to an ETF and say, give me shares. I think that'll eventually happen, but right now, it's just the redemption portion.
Andres Sandate:Yeah, it's kind of this further aligns crypto exchange traded products or funds with what's always happened with other commodity based funds that are out there. A lot of inefficiencies, I mean, the headlines we'll get into, but a lot of inefficiencies being addressed through the use of crypto, but also just a lot of enterprise adoption and government adoption. And I just think we're only beginning to see a trend of that here as we roll through '25 and into '26.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah, 100%. What'll And be interesting to see is how soon after they allow the ability to bring Ethereum or Bitcoin to get shares. That seems like that's gonna happen. Does does it happen before we get alternative crypto ETFs, spot ETFs? I know we'll find out as time goes on, but a a lot will happen this fall is my is my assumption.
Robert Swarthout:Mhmm. Our next topic in Coinbase is partnering with JPMorgan to allow Coinbase customers to fund their Coinbase account from their JPMorgan accounts. Particularly, you it's supposed to be able to fund your Coinbase account with your JPM or your Chase credit card. We were talking before we started up airing. Funding a crypto transaction from a credit card seems bananas, and why they're even allowed.
Robert Swarthout:Because you can't go buy Apple stock with your credit card. Why why can you buy Coinbase, or share with you? I don't know.
Andres Sandate:Let's see what kind of cash advance I have on my Chase Sapphire, and I may have to go make a make an investment into into some crypto, but it is it is fascinating. Like, these are not headlines that we would have seen six
Robert Swarthout:No.
Andres Sandate:Eight months ago. And we saw another one of these two weeks ago with PNC Bank. Right. And so we were commenting before the show went live that this is the second major financial institution to ink a partnership with, with Coinbase. And, you know, you gotta think there's more in the hopper.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah, their deals team, man, they must not be working. They must be working weekends and overtime. So they
Andres Sandate:Yeah, it's pretty pretty fascinating. The Yeah, the the seamlessly linking of the Chase bank accounts and the Coinbase wallets, you know, it's an interesting move, especially if you think about younger consumers or the demographic of consumers who probably haven't been inside of a bank branch in their life or certainly just don't use bank branches. Now, when the executives at JP Morgan talk, especially Jamie Dimon, they talk about the importance of branches. And you do still see branches around
Robert Swarthout:quite often. There's a lot of them around, which is blowing my mind.
Andres Sandate:A lot of them. So this is further merging a digital world with a traditional retail bank. Yeah, I think it's, you know, the interesting thing is the credit card aspect of this. Like, we didn't see that much with PNC Bank, but Chase obviously has a huge credit card business. So that's the element of this headline that, you know, we see this traditional finance and digital asset space converging.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And I think the last little bit here is, that we haven't mentioned is you're able to take your Chase ultimate reward points and redeem them, basically into cash on Coinbase, to go buy crypto. So it's I don't know. Crazy headline, but, you know, it's it is functional reality at this point. So Mhmm.
Robert Swarthout:Anyways, so this next topic, we talked about this months ago when, I believe, right after Trump was elected, and he kinda started appointing people for office or different positions. And he the the cryptos are David Sachs and Bo. Heinz is, I guess, slightly under that, I I believe, in the, I guess, a hierarchy standpoint. They were tasked with writing this crypto report. The crypto report was due a hundred and eighty days later.
Robert Swarthout:Well, here we are. The report was brought. The White House had it for about a week, and then they released it to the public a week ago this last Friday. And there's good things in it. There's not necessarily bad things in it, but there's also some things missing.
Robert Swarthout:Most notably, the information on how much Bitcoin The US holds was absent. Bitcoin reserve, absent. I find that intriguing. You can come up with all sorts of reasons why you think it was not included. I don't think we're really probably properly equipped to really speculate on it.
Robert Swarthout:But the the cool thing about the report is it basically continues to push the agencies to work together. You see the CFTC and the SEC doing roundtables. So the SEC did a crypto roundtables, six of them this last early part of the summer. Now the CFTC is gonna do one in conjunction with the SEC. The SEC is going on a roadshow to go do more of their own roundtables for people that couldn't make it to DC for them.
Robert Swarthout:So it is the promise that crypto was gonna be a a priority for the SEC under Paul Ikins and for the Trump administration seems to be really, continuing to push forward. So kinda cool to see.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I mean, I I think you you said this earlier on with this headline. I mean, I think all of us watching and that certainly pay attention to what's happening in crypto would have loved to have seen. What does the government hold? What what has the government seized or or come into with respect to this crypto reserve?
Andres Sandate:I think people are gonna continue to pound the table and wanna know what that is. I I think a lot of the other things that are in there are obviously momentum for the industry, to But your it's the but part, right? It's the but why can't we know what we actually own? I think it's a good headline from the standpoint of, yes, they did hit the deadline, but we had an executive order that we would hear and see what does the government own, let's do an accounting. So we'll just have to see, hopefully, whether it's the next report that comes out or in this next wave.
Andres Sandate:I don't know particularly why I have this feeling as a citizen or as a taxpayer to know what we own, but I just more out of curiosity. I think that clearly the, you know, the Trump administration has been pro crypto and so is the regulatory structure in in DC. So maybe we'll find out. But overall, I mean, favorable what you saw in the report.
Robert Swarthout:Yep. And for those that are interested, we'll be happy to link this 166 page PDF report in the show notes if you all are so inclined to want to read up on this. Yeah. So well, moving on, and staying on this topic of the White House. The White House is is preparing an executive order for Trump to sign, so says the news, that would punish banks that discriminate against crypto companies.
Robert Swarthout:We have come 180 degrees from a year ago. Was almost encouraged to not do business openly, with crypto companies and how now they're, the same banks could end up getting punished, going forward. So Yeah. I you know, we've I I might have mentioned this a few times in the past. You know, the fund is it Teton has had bank accounts from time to time.
Robert Swarthout:And we after the third time of getting debanked, I was like, we don't need a bank account anymore. You know, the idea that when it time comes to need a bank account that it might be easier to get seems to be coming soon. So that that is the exciting bit here for me.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I remember two weeks ago, we had a headline about the American Bankers Association was, pushing or lobbying to slow down the applications for a couple of banks. Was it Circle and Ripple?
Robert Swarthout:Yeah, for bank charters for this.
Andres Sandate:Yeah, for bank charters. So yeah, it's interesting. I I think the whole industry, the whole banking industry is obviously, there's much, much more asset concentration in the top eight, top five banks, these systematically important financial institutions or CFIs. It'll be fascinating to see how the banking industry reacts to what is an accelerating and what is a fast moving downhill snowball effect, which I feel like is happening across enterprise and governments and boardrooms with respect to things like AI and digital assets and crypto and Bitcoin and not Bitcoin so much, just the conversation there. The whole notion of what you have to wrestle with as an executive and a board member now to be competitive and to be relevant, especially in banking and financial institutions, is a pretty dramatic shift.
Andres Sandate:It's only accelerating under this administration.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. You know, what's interesting is, like, I I don't have any real way to back this up. But had you looked at the the way the banks had to be the banks had to deal with crypto companies prior to the Trump administration, it was almost like they had to play by unspoken rules. Right? And if the rules were spoken, they were never making it to public.
Robert Swarthout:It was somehow happening in backchannel. Now you'll move forward. It appears the rule the rules are being very overtly public about what needs to happen and what does need to happen, which is maybe the right way to go about it.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Provides well, it provides more clarity and direction. Right? Yeah, you may not agree with the rules or may not agree with the direction. You should
Robert Swarthout:know what you're playing by. Don't know.
Andres Sandate:But yeah, you know the framework and there's one thing that markets like and that's markets like structure, like certainty, they like direction. We can react to that as an industry. It's much harder when you try to innovate, try to be, if you will, ahead. Then under at least the last SEC regime, there was just so much uncertainty, so many gray areas, and more of a approach of, you know, regulation through enforcement, which is was a much more reactive approach.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. So back to the SEC, We have got a draft form of what could be listing standards for crypto ETPs or ETFs. This this is exciting because, again, this is Spring's general liquidity, this to the ecosystem.
Andres Sandate:Mhmm.
Robert Swarthout:But, again, in the spirit of setting rules and guidelines in place, this is exactly what this is. It always seemed a little, black box how the Bitcoin one got approved, how the Ethereum ones got approved. The SEC is now proposing that any crypto spot ETFs for that particular crypto that has a, been trading on Coinbase futures for six months is eligible to have basically an express approval through to become a spot traded ETF. If if it doesn't have that kind of futures coverage, it would have to go through the standard listing of the the forties act for ETFs. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:So more arduous process of sorts, I would guess. Yeah. But I guess the next question is when do we get more crypto ETFs? And it looks like September, October, there's a lot of, approval dates sitting on the SEC's calendar, for some of these. So there's probably potentially up to 10 different cryptos that get that fall within that six months or at least having a six month window.
Robert Swarthout:I don't know. It again, if if you I don't know if you wanna put a tinfoil hat on here or not, but, you know, we're potentially in alt season. All of sudden, you need more liquidity in the system. You start allowing spot ETFs. You start making it easier to buy these things all over the place, and it could really add some fuel to the fire.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. You know, I go back to if if if you wanted to buy it on, let's just say, one of these altcoins. If you wanted to buy one of these altcoins through a wallet, an exchange, there's now a variety of different places you can do that. I went on my Robinhood account last night and was curious, like, what can I buy now with crypto? And I mean, they've been doing crypto for some time.
Andres Sandate:But other platforms where I have accounts, you can't, right? You can't go to Schwab, you can't go to Vanguard. There's other places, but Robinhood, you could do it. You know, obviously, Bitcoin shows up first, Ethereum shows up second, XRP shows up third, Dogecoin maybe third, then XRP. But, like, my my question is if if you are a consumer, retail individual investor, If you could buy it that way, and eventually if all these, you know, it's called retail brokerage firms in the next year or two are selling crypto, Schwab, TD, all these.
Andres Sandate:If you're buying it that way and it's now available in an ETP or an ETF, does it dramatically I mean, you might have incrementally more buyers, but just having it in ETF, I'm wondering if that creates increased demand for any of these altcoins because I've always been of the view that there's so many of them. The average person likes stocks.
Robert Swarthout:They have no idea.
Andres Sandate:They have no idea. If you own it in a mutual fund or an ETF, a stock, it's probably the the Fortune 500 companies or in this case, the S and P 500 companies. We don't have such a dynamic in crypto yet. The market cap of the whole space is still pretty small. Yeah.
Andres Sandate:And Bitcoin is what? Half of that? More than half of that?
Robert Swarthout:60%. Yeah.
Andres Sandate:Right. So I don't know. It's just more of an analysis or thought, like all the liquidity that an ETP or an ETF creates. I'm wondering if you end up with a lot of product that gets created but doesn't really have a market.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. That's a great question. I think my well, part of my hope is is currently crypto is basically discretionary in the sense that it's like cash you might have in your checking account. Right? If you start getting into the ETF land and further down into you maybe select an index of some kind, you might start being able to reach money in brokerage accounts that might have a view to be a little more long term thinking.
Andres Sandate:Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:And bring a little bit of stability to the some some of these prices over the long term. Yeah. And, again, there's also a gigantic pile of value sitting in brokerage accounts and retirement accounts for that matter that currently does not have access to crypto outside of Bitcoin or Ethereum.
Andres Sandate:Well, I'll share with you an anecdote. I I won't I will re relieve the the names, anonymous or out of the story. But last week I had a business trip and I was, you know, we were we were in the offices of a multibillion dollar institutional money manager, and we had a chance to interact with their research folks and their investment strategy folks. And the topic of crypto came up. And at this point in time, the firm has looked at crypto, has looked at Bitcoin, but has decided so far, like we're not going to do anything.
Andres Sandate:And what's interesting, they come from the Fama and French School of University of Chicago. Lot of the Eugene Fama research is around efficient markets, and there's a framework around valuing assets and valuing stuff. Then they've further gone down those folks and a lot of their followers have gone down the path of there's momentum in the market, there's value in the market and there's all these different factors is what we But call when it comes to crypto, all that sort of dynamic of determining value has become much more difficult. As a result, a lot of those traditional investment frameworks have not you can't apply them. And so as a result, a lot of the bigger money, I think, has struggled with how do you invest in this space?
Andres Sandate:So it's just fascinating. That's more traditional finance. And how they're looking at the space. But it was, you know, something that happened last week in, like, real time. And it's like, I find myself in these conversations with people who have very sophisticated views of financial markets and valuing companies and valuing assets and managing money.
Andres Sandate:But then when you throw crypto into it, man, you get an emotional reaction.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I very quick aside here. The SIPA summer barbecue that happened a couple weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:My literally my first conversation when once I got my name tag, I was talking to a guy, he's like, oh, crypto. He's he's all in my name tag. He's like, has crypto figured I had to have a cash flow yet so we can be interested in it? It was literally his statement. And I'm like, it's kinda not the point.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. It's crypto figured out how to have cash flow. Yeah. It's true. It's it's so interesting.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. It does it does create a reaction. There's no doubt. Yeah. Well, we've got a couple more headlines with with the SEC.
Robert Swarthout:Yep. So this one probably pretty quick. The SEC has been great lately about coming out and saying what is or is not a security. Before they would answer the question, they would disclaim it all was and without really saying it was. In this case, they're saying that liquid staking activities are not security.
Robert Swarthout:So what is liquid staking activities mean? Staking means that you have your funds in a, like, in a network like Ethereum or other, I guess, proof of stake networks. Literally, instead of proof of work like Bitcoin where they do do a bunch of computer math, proof of stake, this basically means you leave value on the network. And the more people that have it there, the more, quote unquote, the network becomes secure. Liquid staking a lot of times does have something that looks like interest.
Robert Swarthout:So you get staking rewards, and it can be shown as a percentage. So it feels a lot like an interest on the bank account. But they're saying those activities are not securities, which I would say most people would agree with outside of the people that just straight up hate crypto. So Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. That was cool to see them say that.
Andres Sandate:Yeah, I mean, there's, you know, it's interesting, the emerging, I call it sort of an emerging approach that's coming out of DC and the SEC. Saw a lot more bipartisanship with respect to the one of the recent bills that was passed. Obviously, the midterms are not terribly far away. It feels like there's a lot more positioning happening leading into this set of midterms than almost ever before with respect to crypto specifically and positioning. And, we're just seeing a lot more, you know, we're seeing a lot more clarity and these staff announcements that are coming out are providing a lot more, you know, meat for us to sort of chew on as an industry and digest and then, you know, allow people to react, you know, from the standpoint of enterprise and creating product and creating solutions.
Robert Swarthout:Yep. Indeed. So our last topic, again, SEC coming out with more guidance, has basically said that stablecoins that are fully collateralized stablecoins, so they are fully backed by dollar and dollar equivalents, which now that we have the Genius Act signed into law, there's a little bit of law that spells out the rules around this. But basically the SEC says those stablecoins, examples of those might be Circle USDC, Paxos' US USDP, they Paxos used to do one for PayPal that I think was the remnants of that one, Ripple stablecoin. But anyways, they may be treated as cash equivalents on corporate balance sheets.
Robert Swarthout:So before they were had to be held as a liability, if I'm not mistaken.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Was like a held as a contract.
Robert Swarthout:Right. So now they the stablecoin can be held as cash equivalent, which this is this is the further and further intertwining of crypto into mainstream finance. This will be looked as and passed over by most people is not important, but this is, like, a fundamental building block to getting crypto to be part more of that just general plumbing that we might see in the future.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Well, I'm I'm gonna ask I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna ask for a moment just because I remember going back in December when we wrote the letter for January 2025. And I said one of the things I was gonna be watching was how many treasury staffs or how many corporate treasury departments start to really adopt crypto and look at crypto as an asset on the balance sheet. This is another data point around like, okay, now it can be looked at as a cash and cash equivalent on the balance sheet. There's obviously a lot of accounting implications.
Andres Sandate:Lot of folks are going to be paying attention to this. It's no longer a contract or therefore potential liability. And so, yeah, really, really interesting updates this week.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And the cool thing is, who does this benefit? Well, who can really take advantage? Like, multinational corporations, I think, are the first big example. Right?
Robert Swarthout:And we've talked about this in the past, but Starlink was using Stablecoin to bring funds home from foreign markets back to The US in an efficient manner for more nascent local currencies they've built in. So we're just gonna see more and more of this into the point where we won't talk about it, and it'll just be happening every day. So Mhmm.
Andres Sandate:Pretty cool. Yeah. Definitely.
Robert Swarthout:Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us on this episode of the weekly crypto check-in. To stay updated on future episodes, you can find us and any podcast player by searching Tetan crypto capital or the weekly crypto check-in. Take care.
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