Ep 38 - February 26, 2025 - SEC dropping cases
Welcome to another episode of the weekly crypto check-in recorded on February 2005. I'm your host, Robert Swartell, and I'm joined by my cohost, Andres Sendate. How's it going, Andres?
Andres Sandate:Hey, Robert. It's, it's good. It's, been a volatile month. So we, once again get a eventful weekend in crypto. Yeah.
Andres Sandate:I was interesting headlines to talk about.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I was recording, another crypto podcast with Casey this morning, and I used the analogy that February is turning into a volatility sandwich. And it's not a it's not a sandwich you probably wanna eat. For me, that would be a turkey sandwich. So the bread is, crazy volatile weekends at the beginning of the month and this last weekend.
Robert Swarthout:And in the middle, the turkey, a bunch of sideways price action. So,
Andres Sandate:yeah. We we have, yeah.
Robert Swarthout:To be every week.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot there's a lot there's a lot of, stuff going on in the background, I think, from the standpoint of the economy. I was just leaving a lunch as I was telling you, and the conversation shifted to talking about, you know, the equity markets and and kind of where we're at and coming off of two years of, you know, really good returns, if you're an investor in the S and P five hundred or the Mag seven Magnificent seven. So, yeah, lots lots to break down.
Andres Sandate:But, you know, we start with a hack, which is never fun when, you know, that's the first headline in crypto.
Robert Swarthout:No. But the crazy thing is is, like, normally, these are long drawn out things, and investors Yeah. Rarely see their money back. Or if they do, it's an insurance process that takes a while by an exchange. This basically happened and got cleaned up all for all intents and purposes for the users of the exchange within, like, three days.
Robert Swarthout:So what we're talking about here is Bybit. It's an exchange out of Asia that they they for all everything that I've seen, they have the correct security protocols in place. They're using outside software vendor, to help manage their wallets. There's something called multi sig or signature encrypted. That means multiple people have to approve a transaction, before it can be submitted on the blockchain and approved.
Robert Swarthout:In this case, six to 12 people. Right? I mean, they they had quite the list, which is in a lot of ways the best way to be doing it when you're talking about the the amount of funds that might be in an exchange wallet. The software vendor that they use, they have functionally got, compromised. The transaction that these, approvers were approving that they saw on their screen was not the one that actually got approved behind the scenes.
Robert Swarthout:They, were able to spoof it. So to the people doing their jobs, they did everything correctly. But, at the end of the day, $1,460,000,000 worth of Ethereum was stolen. It was done, by a group that basically is the North Koreans. They they go by a different name, but the the running joke this weekend was after stealing $1,400,000,000 worth of Ethereum, the North Koreans beat The United States to having an Ethereum reserve in place.
Andres Sandate:Well, I I I have some fundamental questions. So if if the idea here is multisig, multisignature so if I'm understanding that, that means that multiple people, in this case, six different parties I think it was maybe one mistake.
Robert Swarthout:But yeah. A lot.
Andres Sandate:Had to sign off on moving moving Ethereum, moving capital. Mhmm. Correct. So the software company behind all six?
Robert Swarthout:Well, they all it was they use, like, a software management system that they all actually, I don't know the exact process that they would maybe log in to. They would be presented with the transaction and they would functionally, click approve. I think it's more complicated than that. I've never used that particular piece of software, but it's, But
Andres Sandate:they tricked they tricked the software provider that was the Correct. Gatekeeper, the approver. Absolutely. And somehow got all six parties somehow to sign
Robert Swarthout:off. Correct. And I don't know what transaction they were actually presented with. I'm sure it was a rather simple transaction. So they didn't think much of it.
Robert Swarthout:But the, yeah, the the underlying system for that third party software vendor was compromised, and they, were basically approving a transaction they didn't see. So
Andres Sandate:And and and multi multi, party custody arrangements that you hear about here in The US, could this
Robert Swarthout:have happened? In theory, yes. I mean, like
Andres Sandate:Okay. You know So sharding your keys, with three different providers, unless you were one of the three or one of the four that owned a piece of the key, theoretically, anybody that's custodying with a multi institutional setup could be compromised.
Robert Swarthout:Right. I mean, yeah. In theory, I mean, there again, software's mandate. No no software's perfect. But, you know, even in in a situation where you're using multiple keys, like, if I'm looking at it on the screen and I it looks like I'm gonna say send, Ethereum from one wallet to another, but I'm sending one Ethereum versus $1,400,000,000 worth.
Robert Swarthout:I don't think much of it because it looks like my normal process. I'm doing what I'm supposed to. I'm bringing my key to the to the party effectively. Yeah. Transaction.
Robert Swarthout:And, you know, I'm doing my part. Like, it at first, it was, assume this was, like, some kind of social engineering hack. But as more digging and more details have come out, it was a software vendor, unfortunately. So and it's not they're not the only ones that use or get used that software. So I don't know if I would assume the issue has been patched, but you never know.
Andres Sandate:So that was the hack. Now you said that it was also resolved and, client assets, were they returned or Yes. Recovered within a matter of of
Robert Swarthout:Zero recovery. Zero recovery of the funds. And I let's go on that first, and then we'll kind of we got a couple of segments to break here. So the funds were quickly sent off to an Ethereum wallet off exchange, and then they broke it up into, I believe, almost a hundred different wallets. So they started this, like, spreading the risk.
Robert Swarthout:Like, if one gets, somehow gets, caught, they don't get up they all doesn't get caught. And then after they got it in those wallets, they started sending it through Solana to start basically washing it. And then it it the assumption is since it's North Koreans, they tend to want it to get it to Bitcoin. It's usually what they wanna do. So they'll probably go through them, Solana, into Bitcoin is the last assumptions and speculations that I've read.
Robert Swarthout:So Okay. You have that piece of it. So to jump to the, the question you were asking is how to get resolved. So in some sense, the Bybit's, executive team and owners really put on a master class on communication on how to handle a crisis. They were highly communicative.
Robert Swarthout:They were trying to share information when they could, at least in my opinion. And they they, had enough liquidity as a business and I guess liquidity slash the ability to go get loans. They filled their Ethereum hole of $1,400,000,000 in just under three days. They went on the open market buying it. They were getting Ethereum, loaned to them, and they were straight just, doing OTC transactions to kind of just wherever they could get it without really moving the market because all of a sudden you're on the market and everyone knows you're out there buying it.
Robert Swarthout:The price could have gone crazy, with that kind of buy pressure, but it functionally didn't move.
Andres Sandate:K.
Robert Swarthout:So that's,
Andres Sandate:you know,
Robert Swarthout:there's something So they returned it
Andres Sandate:to the wallet where it was stolen out of?
Robert Swarthout:Correct. So the exchange, the users on Bybit that had Ethereum were made whole. Like, they they they're outside of not being able to use their funds for two or three days. There was no real harm there. So Okay.
Andres Sandate:Good How many of those customers have stuck around? You you know, there was
Robert Swarthout:a lot of outflows of other crypto from Bybit. People, like, also get real worried, rightfully so. But some of that has started to flow back in. A lot of it, flowed into Binance. Because all again, all this is public, so you can kinda see where these things are going, which is, I guess, a bit of a short movie in itself to kinda watch the flows.
Robert Swarthout:People have visualization tools to really make this a little bit easier. Something I just kinda like in some sense, this is a little bit mean, but I got a chuckle out of was a a guy posted that he, had just received his, let me make sure I get this right. He just got his FTX payout because they're starting to do these payouts. And literally the day before, he had put it on by bit. And then they had this happen.
Robert Swarthout:I'm like, crazy guy.
Andres Sandate:Are these customers mostly in Asia that are impacted?
Robert Swarthout:That yeah. That's their general audience. I I know of people in The United States that use them, but they do the whole VPN thing. It's it is not a normal US customer that would be doing it. Some institutions in The US will use by bit, but it it's a little bit difficult.
Robert Swarthout:Institution like in a in a sense hedge fund. So, yeah, it's a crazy story. And, you know, again, Ben, the CEO, owner of, I think the founder of Bybit was did a great job communicating, explaining transactions as stuff was happening after the fact as they were trying to, I guess, contain the blast radius a little bit, and and more so the expectations of people. Mhmm. And I think the last bit that we'll talk about this on is somebody actually tweeted this out, and this kinda blew my mind because I hadn't put all these pieces together.
Robert Swarthout:If you look at Fridays and crypto since Trump was, Yeah. The the weekend of Trump being inaugurated. So on the January 17, he launched his token. You fast forward a week, that's when the deep seek dump happened. So deep seek out of China.
Robert Swarthout:You fast forward another week, that's when the tariff stuff, the Canadian and, Mexican tariffs, the first week in the February. You fast forward two weeks, that's the Libra launch, and then you had the Biden hack on the twenty first. So fingers crossed, we don't hit get anything on the twenty eighth. It'd be nice to take a week off here.
Andres Sandate:But it's been The market yeah. The market the the market has basically been in the dumps on Fridays the last, you know, seven weeks. So, yeah, not not a lot of, yeah, not not a lot of, asset classes, I guess, have probably performed all that well. I know the equity markets have been down the last, you know, it's like I said, six or seven Fridays. So we'll have to see if this week breaks the mold, but crypto has followed.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. It's, it it will be, I guess, something to watch if nothing else.
Andres Sandate:So I guess a final point on Bybit is par for the course still for crypto as as a as a skeptic of the space, that's listening or or that occasionally tunes in to what's going on in crypto. Is this another black eye, or is this, that's with a bruise that healed and it's just it's just part of kind of the locomotive of innovation that's moving down the track?
Robert Swarthout:I think it's I think it's the latter. Okay. And and I say that because largely because the way the Bybit team handled the situation. They could have left the whole sitting there and, like, there'd be all sorts of uncertainty. And then, like, then the rumor mill in crypto starts and good luck.
Robert Swarthout:It quickly gets out of hand and most of it can be, on is gonna be false information flying around. So, again, props to them for doing that. And I think that, you know, regulations don't solve this problem. I mean, this the industry's gotta figure out what the the correct solution for custody is. And it and it's in my opinion, it's still gonna be access accessible twenty four seven.
Robert Swarthout:It's not like I need to have a custody solution that closes on bit and it just open on business hours. But it I don't know. You've never heard of a major hack at Coinbase or some of these others. I I just wonder, like, what are they doing differently? Because you have gotten to target continuously, the amount.
Robert Swarthout:So I don't know. You you would never get that answer. I don't think at least accepted a high level at a conference where somebody's talking, but it's, it it's interesting to watch. I as a tech guy in a previous life, I kind of appreciate these details and, find find them a little bit curious. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. It it it is fascinating because as we think about our digital lives that we live in now, where where it is not hard to imagine a future where more of our information is out there. Right? You know? All the identification, all the property records, all the assets, everything is out there online, on the blockchain.
Andres Sandate:You know? It it just raises the question, and we, you know, we don't have the time to pontificate about it. But, you know, how safe are your assets? How safe are, things out there? And, yeah.
Andres Sandate:Well, I guess my takeaway, is I'm I'm glad I have you to lean on to help explain these hacks and, you know, not not, you know, that a billion plus dollars, you know, or Ethereum being stolen is is ever a good thing, but it does sound like there was some positive resolution.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. Last bit about this. I think the last thing I saw is granted it's mostly not in Ethereum now. It's in Solana, because they've done that Yeah. Those transactions.
Robert Swarthout:But they were the third largest Ethereum holder, the moment after the attack because they had that much, holdings. So this is kind of interesting to see how, you know, $1,400,000,000 doesn't sound very consequential. But, you know, there's a rather amount of diversification amongst holders within Ethereum for the third largest holder to have $1,400,000,000. So anyways, we'll move on. Some positive news.
Robert Swarthout:I cannot believe we're already talking about this. So the SNC has already started pausing slash, dropping, distancing, some enforcement action cases that they were doing. Some of them were still in the phase where they just they didn't even take action. They were, I guess, working up to a Wells notice or right after Wells notice. But the big one that first came out was Coinbase.
Robert Swarthout:They dropped their case, against Coinbase, and they, make sure I get this right. They dropped, dismissed it with, pre, pre justice. So, like, they can't bring the case back, even if the administration was to change and blah blah blah blah. It's a big deal. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:And it says not as Coinbase. They dropped their case against OpenSea, the NFT exchange. I believe that's based on Ethereum. They dropped or didn't follow through on their action with Robinhood. Yep.
Robert Swarthout:The one that everyone at least seems to be waiting for, at some levels, the Ripple case. That one, apparently, is gonna be more difficult to kinda drop. Right? These other ones never had judgments in them. The the Ripple case was already on to what was looking to be an appeal, so they've got to figure out how they're gonna deal with that.
Robert Swarthout:I mean, there's a hundred and $25,000,000 judgment. The judge has jurisdiction over at this point. I it seems like, at least from the attorneys I'm reading online, that there's, like, maybe April, May, we could see that one wrap up. So it's gonna take longer unless yeah. Obviously, it can move quicker.
Robert Swarthout:All these other ones are moving quicker. So it's, pretty cool to see an SEC that's trying to clean up a mess.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I saw a lot of these headlines over the last week and an avalanche of them, if you will Yes. Over the over the last few business days. So yeah.
Andres Sandate:We we are not done talking about what's going on in in the regulatory and legislative environment. I don't think we've obviously heard the end of, change at the SEC. I know that we're expecting to start hearing more from, Paul Atkins, the, nominee to chair the SEC. When that confirmation process gets started and and gets underway, you gotta believe he's gonna get a, a a grilling, and we'll have an opportunity to give a hearing, of of what his views are on crypto. But there's a lot going on in the market, just Yes.
Andres Sandate:More broadly than crypto right now. And I I would I would think that a pause of a couple of months, just after all the news that came out post Trump election, it it will probably take some time on the Ripple case.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And and it was kind of rumored that this and it does seem to line up with the way that they're dealing with these cases and they're working through them, at least announcing them, is they're working through the ones that have the most, pressing court dates coming up, and they're working down. So the next, court date for the, Ripple case is, April. There's a court case with Kraken that is in late March. So they could be potentially a little bit ahead of Ripple.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. From a news standpoint. But, again, ripples pays as much for their long nothing. No one else had ever really gotten as far as they got in in the legal process. So I don't know.
Robert Swarthout:It's, when the Coinbase one happened, I'm like, oh, that's cool. And then, like, you're right. It seemed like every single day last week. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and even Monday of this week, it was more of them. But this I think yesterday and today has been relatively quiet.
Robert Swarthout:But we will, imagine get some news hopefully soon. So Yeah. Oop. I forgot to. So our next topic is, you know, again, the SEC being proactive.
Robert Swarthout:They were not interested in approving Ethereum ETFs that launched, last summer, that had staking as part of it.
Andres Sandate:Mhmm.
Robert Swarthout:Ethereum has got staking native on the chain. You can think of it as, you know, for listeners that don't fully understand staking, you can think of it as like an interest mechanism built in. There's an automatic inflation rate within Ethereum, and part of that inflation goes to rewarding validators and people staking. So in this case, the SEC is apparently been reaching out trying to get industry comments. Shocker.
Robert Swarthout:That's the way that you should do this. And working through a process, the hunch is is maybe but even by August, we might see me Ethereum ETFs be able to update their their product offering, to allow some staking, which would be pretty cool.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. What's your take on the benefit? Does that, increase interest in the products that are out there, the ETFs that are out there?
Robert Swarthout:Well, I think I would assume that all the ETFs convert to, to have staking as part of it. I can't imagine some do and some don't because the ones that don't are obviously just taking it for themselves.
Andres Sandate:Sure.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. So say that upfront. I think that for the traditional TradFi person, if I tried to put on a hat like that, this is a cash flow mechanism. Right? Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:And that starts to speak a little bit of a language that they understand, and I think that helps coax them along on the crypto education journey. I don't think, you know, staking is the end all be all to the right part of a portfolio, because you have to understand why they're staking. It's not just free money. Yeah. So it's but but I think it is, it is helpful.
Robert Swarthout:So
Andres Sandate:Well, you know, there's been some talk this year about is this the beginning? I don't think it's gonna get resolved, but is this the beginning of a of of a cycle where we start to see more utility from, some of the tokens. Right? Now that it I don't know if you would agree, Robert, but, like, the characterization that that Bitcoin is digital gold and can be looked at as a as a that's its utility now. Right?
Andres Sandate:As and maybe other people would have different views, but that that is a that is a, a way to think about it in the context of what what purpose does it serve in a in a broadly diversified portfolio. Okay? And if you think about gold or or real estate, not lumping them all together, but if you think about these are in inflation hedges or their their assets in times of, inflation where, you know, people say, you know, own real estate, own gold, own, you know, infrastructure. So if Bitcoin falls into that category, are we, you know, gonna start to see more, crypto assets, altcoins that have characteristics, that we can actually start to put value around, right, cash flows and and other things like we see in other, traditional assets. And that and that's what I'm hoping that we see more of, going forward, right, is the traditional finance, folks can start to see the space, because it has the underlying, characteristics of other assets.
Andres Sandate:Right? It's either a hedge or it's trading cash flow or, you know, there's something there.
Robert Swarthout:Absolutely. And I think, you know, I I think what's more likely, I don't know if it's drastically, higher percentage, but I think what's more likely is we end up with a slightly different definition that we've never had before. Right? We it's like half commodity, half something else. We end up with a new definition, and maybe it's something to do with how how much utility is happening on that network in any given period of time.
Robert Swarthout:You end up with a different metric. Yeah. Because I think these will be valued and, traded in different ways, just due to the nature of them being different.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. And maybe the the the economics of the network will be where, we look to underwrite, if you will, to to sort of compare and contrast. Because without the comparison, it's hard to know if a network is better than another network. Right? So I think it's all gonna it's all gonna flush out over time, but this is, I guess, a it's a step in the right direction.
Andres Sandate:A lot of this, as we've said for a long time, begins with getting more clarity from a regulatory standpoint.
Robert Swarthout:A %. Yeah. I'm feeling better myself. Yeah. So our next topic and we kind of, briefly, mentioned this when we opened the show.
Robert Swarthout:So the market sell off that happened this last weekend in the beginning of the month, there's a lot of fear in the market right now. Obviously, the way down as of yesterday, I think Bitcoin was in the mid eighties. And some altcoins have or most I mean, most altcoins have traded off, at a higher percentage than the Bitcoin did. What's interesting is this last weekend in this this sell off is it's not all the Dano tokens, but most of them have, traded and sold off less than the rest of the altcoin market, but not quite as good as Bitcoin. So it was just slightly better than Bitcoin.
Robert Swarthout:So their dominance kinda went up, if you look at it from a market cap percentage standpoint, it but it's a, as much as you don't wanna see downturns, everyone wants the price to always go up. The it if you look at the twenty nineteen, twenty twenty cycle of crypto and you overlay it with how we're doing in 2425 right now, not not necessarily on the same day, but the same pattern, it is crazy how much of a mirror we have right now. This was the in in some theory, the last liquidation event we needed before we go up into the right, in a strong way. Again, no financial advice here, but it's kind of crazy if you start looking at patterns. So
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Well, look. I mean, there there are different ways to look at markets. Right? Mhmm.
Andres Sandate:There's there's the technical approach, and looking at charts and patterns and volumes and prices. There's the efficient market hypothesis approach. Right? Like and and fundamentals and all these different ways to look at the market. I think you what you said at the beginning is absolutely spot on, which is there there definitely is uncertainty.
Andres Sandate:And what to me is so curious, and and, I mean, really fascinating to talk to people that follow the market or interested in economics and the market cycle is what's happened in such a short amount of time since November when the seminal event like, we we we have to say it. It was the election. Right? Like, everybody was focused on the election. And what happened in the aftermath of the election is we saw all asset prices react Mhmm.
Andres Sandate:Positively. You know? We were gonna get, you know, we were gonna get lower interest rates. We're gonna get, right, a less regulated environment from the business standpoint. We were gonna see more, animal spirits with respect to m and a crypto, pro crypto.
Andres Sandate:And when you when you look out now to the end of the month Mhmm. Oh, man. It I don't wanna say disappointment is the word, but I but I think that a lot of people look at where we're at and say, gosh. You know, there is so much it's whether you call it noise or headlines or it's Doge, it's it's Paris, it's it's, you know, geopolitical. I mean, all these things.
Andres Sandate:I think it's just a lot for the market to digest. Yeah. And there's there seems to be more of a risk off posture, and a and a backdrop forming that, you know, maybe we are gonna be in for a correction. Right? Like or maybe there is something, out there in this in the ether where there's fear that there's just another shoe to drop.
Andres Sandate:And
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. You know? You know, these are the moments again, I largely only focus on crypto.
Andres Sandate:Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:But the sentiment is pretty down negative right now. And, like, that's that's where I start to get excited because I'm like
Andres Sandate:And is it down because it was so high and the hopes were so high, or is it down because we just needed a correction?
Robert Swarthout:I I think you kinda mix in things in crypto. There's a good amount of people, that buy and sell or, quote, unquote, traders on crypto with leverage. And and the and those markets get wiped out so easily. The idea that anyone uses leverage in crypto period blows my mind. Like Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:It's already volatile enough. You can get great returns. Why do you need to throw gas on a fire? Because it probably is gonna blow up in your face.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. So you think the sell off, is it is it more, of of people that are that were levered and they're just yeah. They're having to deal with the consequences of that leverage and Right. With that always been a whipsaw on the market.
Robert Swarthout:Correct. And that coupled with the, you know, the Bybit hack that happened, that that kind of thing will ripple through the market. And
Andres Sandate:Maybe regulation's gonna actually take a little time.
Robert Swarthout:Correct. I mean, everything's gonna take longer than we want. And and the honeymoon phase is probably over. Right. Right.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe some of the some of the press around, like, the the the Doge the Doge, whether it's, you know, efficiency or not, I don't know, but there's just headlines around it. Same with the meme coins. Right?
Andres Sandate:It's Yeah. It's, it's just created additional things to digest. So Mhmm. So do you call do you I mean, I know we've talked about this. And, again, we're we're not here to give advice, but do you continue to see in in the charts and patterns and the approach that you, referenced earlier about looking at cycles in the market?
Andres Sandate:Do you continue to see that, you know, this year is is going to be more like what we've seen the first part of the first quarter. Like, just January was great, for all intents and purposes. February looks to be, you know, much more volatile.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. What's your
Andres Sandate:what's your thought?
Robert Swarthout:My my take is as long as Bitcoin doesn't, accept below the $85,000 level on a daily or certainly a weekly basis Yeah. We're still on track. That that is kind of the make or break area. It would be off pattern at that point then kind of, all bets are off. My guess is we fall basically down all the way to where Bitcoin was at pre election.
Robert Swarthout:So you're talking, like, high sixties.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. I was gonna say in the 65 to 70 range.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. So Yeah. That Because
Andres Sandate:we touched a hundred post election, a hundred thousand, a hundred and eight, you know, in in the euphoric days after, and now we're trading in the mid eighties. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:So I think eighties. Yeah. You know, we are we're we're we're on the edge, but I think we're on pattern. And I still think it all we're kind of wrapped up by midsummer. It doesn't mean by the end of q two.
Robert Swarthout:So I guess it'll be early summer in some sense, but it's a, it's gonna come fast and heavy, assuming it does. And it's gonna be you're gonna quickly think it's always gonna do this for the the end of time, and that's how people get trapped. And they any sort of price predictions they had in their head where they would sell, they start moving them up because this this market is just so strong, blah blah blah. You start hearing crazy narratives, crazy prices. And in that moment, that's the moment we should be ringing the cash register.
Robert Swarthout:So hopefully that's sometime soon.
Andres Sandate:Alright. Well, moving forward, our, our big big big, friends over at BlackRock are launching, a Bitcoin ETF in Europe.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I, you know, I don't know how big of a reach that they have outside The US. I know, obviously, they're humongous in The US, but Yeah. What kind of Salesforce or market penetration they have there. But, it was making some headlines that I saw that, oh, they're launching, ETF.
Robert Swarthout:I think over there, it's an ETP, if I'm not mistaken. So basically the same kind
Andres Sandate:of product. Yeah. But they're big. I mean, make no bones about it. They're they're a global force.
Andres Sandate:And, well, they may not have the market penetration in Europe. It's significant. Mhmm. So, yeah, this is big news.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. And, you know, this and even this next topic about Citadel right here. Right? Like
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Citadel. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:While they're each not gonna drastically change the market, all you add up a thousand base hits like this, and all of a sudden, it's very different.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Yeah. You're in the hall of fame. Right? Bunch of singles.
Andres Sandate:Right? Citadel is a powerhouse. I mean, they do, a significant amount of the just the daily trading volume or execute the daily trading volume for, you know, stocks, here in The US. So for them to start, offering and and accessing, allowing investors to access the Citadel platform for cryptos is a big move. Yep.
Andres Sandate:Indeed.
Robert Swarthout:So we don't have much to say on that one besides what you said there.
Andres Sandate:I
Robert Swarthout:just Yeah.
Andres Sandate:They're they're these are real these are these are real headlines. They're big they're big institutional players. They may not be household names to everybody. Certainly, if you talk to a financial adviser or a wealth adviser or an institutional, asset owner, they're gonna know BlackRock and Citadel. And you know, the like you said, the thousand base hit type of thing.
Andres Sandate:You know, the more that you see these firms moving into the space, they're they don't they don't make these moves, number one, without some degree of, comfort, if you will, that the space is there, and they, too, move into areas where they know they can make money.
Robert Swarthout:Oh, a %.
Andres Sandate:And there's opportunities. So Am I
Robert Swarthout:correct in thinking that Citadel was part of the whole meme stock stuff at a m AMC? And, yeah, they were yeah.
Andres Sandate:They were they were involved in that. Yeah. Citadel was. Yeah. Yeah.
Andres Sandate:Ken Griffin. Ken Griffin is the the founder of Citadel, and he started trading stocks in his dorm room, you know, at 18 or 19 years old. And he's now, you know, one of the world's, you know, 10 richest people or something. So Yeah. Yeah.
Andres Sandate:They've relocated the firm to Miami. And, and so we're in Chicago for a long time, but, left Chicago and are now in Miami and just a powerhouse hedge fund, big trading operation platform, making markets and, you know, now crypto.
Robert Swarthout:Very cool. So our last topic and there's not tons of news here, but we have been talking about walking up to the line. Some stuff would be happening, but there's three states, Montana, North Dakota, and Wyoming. And Wyoming is the one that surprises me there, and we'll get to that in a second, have all rejected bills for state managed Bitcoin reserves over volatility concerns. Okay.
Robert Swarthout:If if you think Bitcoin is volatile, the rest of crypto is crazy volatile. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess from a traditional sense, Bitcoin is volatile, but it's all perspective. But in a kinda jumping back, the reason why I really kind of caught this one, was the Wyoming piece.
Robert Swarthout:Wyoming has senator Loomis. She is the one trying to push for the national, Bitcoin reserve and all of a sudden her home state can't get it done.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Cynthia Loomis, the senator. Right. Yeah.
Robert Swarthout:Yeah. I think that we're gonna see I I think this is the beginning of a pattern. I don't think there's many states that are gonna to pull it off. I think it was a bit of a a press grab of sorts, to seem like a cool state or hip state, whatever you wanna say. But we will, see how that plays out.
Andres Sandate:Yeah. Yeah. I yeah. I mean I mean, I'm I'm eager to to see what the hearings, look like, with, the nominee for the SEC, Paul Atkins, and to see now that some of the euphoria in the immediate reaction, to, you know, the crypto had and pro crypto folks had to Trump's election, the real work begins.
Robert Swarthout:You
Andres Sandate:know? Like, the real work of actually trying to get laws passed and get stuff in place, the horse trading, all the things that go into, you know, being elected official. Like, we'll see how important this really is because we have the midterms, you know, around the corner. We we know that the packs that are pro crypto have raised a lot of money. Yep.
Andres Sandate:So, yeah, we're gonna see if this was an election issue that's turned into something that, you know, voters are gonna speak with their with their feet, or is it, you know, is it gonna kinda die out, because so many people have stopped talking about crypto, because, you know, they they just fear, like, you know, it's it's entering a bear market. So Mhmm. Lot lot to watch over the next few months.
Robert Swarthout:Indeed. Yeah. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the weekly crypto check-in. To stay updated on future episodes, you can find any any podcast player by searching Teton Crypto Capital or the weekly crypto check-in.
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